I'm Too Hostile to Believers
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22-06-2014, 07:56 AM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(22-06-2014 07:28 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The issue I see that you are having is that you are allowing your emotions free reign and this might be ok if you were in a fight out on the school yard or out in your front yard yelling at someone, but when it comes to the arena of debate and rational argumentation, these types of tactics are totally impotent.

What is impotent in the arena of debate is your constant red herrings, obfuscations, failed attempts at sleight-of-hand, lies, dishonesty, and willful ignorance.

Quote:The reason why is because attacking a person personally, in no way shows that their arguments are invalid in their form, invalid by virtue of the presence of fallacies, or unsound, thus rendering the argument a bad one.

[img]http://transitionculture.org/wp-content/uploads/strawman1.jpg[/img


Quote:This is the beauty of argumentation in philosophy. Your personal opinion of a person, even if you think you have good reason to hold the opinion you do, in no way shows their arguments to be bad.

You don't know fuck about argumentation or philosophy.


Quote:For example, a Christian you are speaking with could be completely ignorant as to what atheism means.


Yes, like you are.


Quote:They might say something like "all atheists are immoral" or "the Bible is the Word of God because it says so".

Ok.... well we know that both statements are indefensible.

And yet you are STILL stupid enough to try to pander them.

Quote: First off, the Christian cannot make the first statement for he would have to know that all atheists are immoral, but there is no way he could know that unless he knew all atheists, which we know he does not. Secondly, he could be guilty of reasoning in a circle by saying the later.

But guess what?

If the same Christian presents you with the Kalam Cosmological argument, then even though he is obviously ignorant and wrong and what you might call a dip****, none of that matters when it comes to you refuting the argument!

Sure it does. You are just too fucking ignorant to realize that the cosmological arguments are no different.



Quote:So if you were talking with someone like me, and insisted on calling me a dip**** without responding to my arguments, I would be thrilled!

It would be indicative of the strength of the argument(s) and your inability to refute them.


Except for that little part where no one here does that, moron.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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22-06-2014, 07:57 AM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(22-06-2014 07:52 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Precisely!

People slandering me has nothing to do with my arguments. This is exactly my point. Thanks for supporting it.

Even if I were the biggest liar and dishonest fraud you had ever met, that in no way shows my arguments to be bad.

?

Wtf ?

I ask for an apology from you in regards to your tactics of slandering, etc, others on this forum and some how it's praise?

On top of that, we have the threads where your arguments (With out slander) have been shown to be erroneous.

The two things are NOT, in any way shape or form, connected.

You being an obfuscating, supercilious, dishonest, goal-post shifting individual is the issue in my comments.

NOT the supposed validity (In your mind only) regarding your poor arguments.

*taps foot as they continue to await their apology*

Much cheers to all.
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22-06-2014, 08:01 AM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(22-06-2014 07:52 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(22-06-2014 07:39 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  And along those veins I am still awaiting my apology from yourself, Master Walker.

*Taps foot patiently*


Um... you are kidding, right? Given your consistent tactics on this forum, people 'Going off at you' has nothing to do with your lines of argument/reasoning.

Much cheers to all.

Precisely!

People slandering me has nothing to do with my arguments. This is exactly my point. Thanks for supporting it.


Everyone here BOTH destroys your arguments AND tells you what a fucking idiot you are.



Quote:Even if I were the biggest liar and dishonest fraud you had ever met,

You ARE.


Quote:that in no way shows my arguments to be bad.

No, our dismantling of your shitty "arguments" show that your arguments are shitty.




Don't you have another brainwashing session at your idiot megachurch to go to?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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22-06-2014, 08:11 AM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(22-06-2014 07:47 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(22-06-2014 01:34 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  [Image: Crying-baby.jpg]


[Image: U_3c6f57_1279937.jpg]

Nah, bro. I ain't mad. Just still annoyed at your inability to stop being annoying. There have been a very few times where it's been funny and/or appropriate, but holy buttcheese man, get a clue.

We don't come here for confrontation. We come here for discussion. This is not primarily a debate forum. Yes, confrontation and debate happens here, but it's generally better for everyone if it doesn't turn into a teenage romparoom of stupid insults and cursing for pages upon pages at a time on every goddamn thread.

Meh, what am I doing.....we've been over this before. You just might be the first person I've ever put on ignore. Say what you wanna say, but it's sad that I'd rather read some bullshit from Jeremy friggin' Walker than the sad, tired uninteresting regurgitated teenage angst you keep offering.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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22-06-2014, 08:14 AM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
Ever curious, I have to wonder how to respond to a person who makes provocative, possibly offensive, and/or emotionally charged statements about another person while criticizing or judging that person for not believing as they do… and might even try to get others to do the same.

It doesn't trouble me, I just wonder how others handle it. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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22-06-2014, 08:20 AM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(22-06-2014 08:14 AM)kim Wrote:  Ever curious, I have to wonder how to respond to a person who makes provocative, possibly offensive, and/or emotionally charged statements about another person while criticizing or judging that person for not believing as they do… and might even try to get others to do the same.

It doesn't trouble me, I just wonder how others handle it. Shy

Well... I, personally, start out much ass I am conversing on this forum.

However, as time goes on, and the...um... intransigence and other aspects of the other person wear and grate away at my composure, my mood changes to be similar to that of the OP, Misanthropik.

As the conversation (dare I call it that) continues I must admit to having my 'Inner Taqiyya Mockingbird' emerge to the fore. Smile

Much cheers to all.
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22-06-2014, 08:34 AM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(22-06-2014 07:47 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(22-06-2014 12:39 AM)DLJ Wrote:  ...

(22-06-2014 12:41 AM)Anjele Wrote:  ...

(22-06-2014 01:06 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  ...

(22-06-2014 01:34 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  ...

(22-06-2014 02:08 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  ...
...

I would just like to say that I feel honoured to be in such company.

I feel like we've just bonded.

Hug

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22-06-2014, 10:05 AM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(22-06-2014 08:34 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(22-06-2014 07:47 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  ...

I would just like to say that I feel honoured to be in such company.

I feel like we've just bonded.

Hug

If you've Bonded, you have a license to kill. Use it. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-06-2014, 10:33 AM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2014 10:46 AM by Michael_Tadlock.)
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(22-06-2014 07:28 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(22-06-2014 05:43 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  That's how my arguments work. These peoples' beliefs really are dog-shit, and the ones I tend to engage with really are stupid.

What I left out (for obvious reasons) is the entire argument(s) I made/make before such insults.

Nothing logically fallacious about calling someone a dipshit while explaining why they're a dipshit. Thumbsup

The issue I see that you are having is that you are allowing your emotions free reign and this might be ok if you were in a fight out on the school yard or out in your front yard yelling at someone, but when it comes to the arena of debate and rational argumentation, these types of tactics are totally impotent.

The reason why is because attacking a person personally, in no way shows that their arguments are invalid in their form, invalid by virtue of the presence of fallacies, or unsound, thus rendering the argument a bad one.

This is the beauty of argumentation in philosophy. Your personal opinion of a person, even if you think you have good reason to hold the opinion you do, in no way shows their arguments to be bad.

For example, a Christian you are speaking with could be completely ignorant as to what atheism means. They might say something like "all atheists are immoral" or "the Bible is the Word of God because it says so".

Ok.... well we know that both statements are indefensible. First off, the Christian cannot make the first statement for he would have to know that all atheists are immoral, but there is no way he could know that unless he knew all atheists, which we know he does not. Secondly, he could be guilty of reasoning in a circle by saying the later.

But guess what?

If the same Christian presents you with the Kalam Cosmological argument, then even though he is obviously ignorant and wrong and what you might call a dip****, none of that matters when it comes to you refuting the argument!

So if you were talking with someone like me, and insisted on calling me a dip**** without responding to my arguments, I would be thrilled!

It would be indicative of the strength of the argument(s) and your inability to refute them.

The satisfaction of debating comes in one of two ways; one you admit your wrong and you get the opportunity to progress your view point, or two the person you are debating with admits they are wrong and you get to be validated in your view point.

There is a third option, we collectively realize there are at least two valid positions on the topic, or that there is not enough information to definitively side one way or another, and then, as they say, we agree-to-disagree.

When a person takes the time to formulate a well thought out, sound, and intelligible argument that seems, rather objectively, to be better than your own, and you refuse to acknowledge them or change your position, thrn this is frustrating. When you present no arguments that we find compelling this is also frustrating. It makes debating with you seem both pointless and fruitless. I can understand why people, out of frustration and exacerbation, would resort to personal attacks.

I think you should always try and treat people with respect in an argument, and I agree that it does no one any good to call you an asshole. The other side of that coin, however, is that you must be willing and capable to change your position when presented with better arguments. It is disrespectful to your partner in debate to ignore them and refuse to acknowledge their better arguments, which you often and frequently have done.
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22-06-2014, 10:43 AM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(22-06-2014 08:14 AM)kim Wrote:  ... I have to wonder how to respond to a person who makes provocative, possibly offensive, and/or emotionally charged statements about another person while criticizing or judging that person for not believing as they do …

You may have the answer to your own question by whether you take such posts seriously - and when the pattern of such posting is persistent, whether you take the poster seriously. No response is called for; in fact, response most of the time only adds gasoline to the fire. I have to say I'm amazed that, given the obviously high level of intellect manifest in this forum, so many apparently don't recognize the buckets of sand they think they're throwing are buckets of powder.

Or maybe they do and just like the fireworks. OK. Except that what could have been a more interesting engagement of mind is reduced to empty spectacle seen a million times before. That's disappointing. Funny, but disappointing.
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