I'm Too Hostile to Believers
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25-06-2014, 04:00 PM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(25-06-2014 02:21 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  The thread has wandered a bit, but I will give my opinion on the original topic.

Hostility has its place in the argument for me, especially regarding religious bullying and intimidation. When the religious insist on violating my rights as a secular citizen, which they often try to do, I am resolved to resist with absolute intolerance of their behavior.

Religious people love to use anger and hostility against us as a means of wholesale dismissal of our arguments. "I won't talk to you about this. You're just an angry atheist who wants to take away my freedom. I have rights!" Given our familiarity with this stigma I think it is actually a mistake to accept it. It might be tempting to try and control your anger like a Buddhist monk to avoid arousing the stigma, but it isn't fair or realistically possible. There are plenty of appropriate and important reasons to use anger in an argument. Who can argue with expressing hostility towards the systematic institutionalization and mass covering up of child rape? Given that the religious sometimes do argue against it, I do not think they are honestly considering when anger is appropriate or not. It is a well designed technique meant to silence their opposition from speaking out against them. When we do, we fear the label they made up for us to begin with. This cannot deter us or we are surrendering our right to speak freely and, some would say even more importantly, the freedom of other people to hear our arguments.

If I were to draw the line of what I see acceptable hostility as, I would say that I don't much care for any hostility without actual argument mixed in. By all means be angry and insulting, just have an argument too. Empty sailor mouthed histrionics convince no one.
I'm not sure I agree with everything you said, but I do think you raise an important point that there are at least times when hostility is called for. But I also think it's more productive when it's limited to just those times. Most ordinary conversations with theists - whether in person or on a message board - are not those times.

If a theist is simply refusing to acknowledge the evidence or use logic, it can be frustrating, but it accomplishes nothing productive to be rude and belligerent about it. Now if a theist starts defending pedophilia or rape even in an ordinary conversation, I see no problem with expressing hostility. The difference is there is no risk of onlookers being turned off by the hostility in that case. So there is no risk of losing fence-sitters who might otherwise listen to rationality. There is also no risk of losing the chance of the theist considering your viewpoint - because someone defending pedophilia and rape isn't going to listen to reason anyway.

So it's important to employ sensible discretion when using hostility. Hostility shouldn't be the default first approach just because someone stubbornly clings to fantasy.

Silence is only golden when it's not synonymous with a failure to speak out against injustice.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." --Gene Roddenberry
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25-06-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(25-06-2014 03:51 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 02:05 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Your strawmanning would make the theist trolls proud. Laughat

... AND STILL no actual thought from Taq about the OP... Drinking Beverage

That's not strawmanning in the least, asshole. Pretty fucking stupid to cry about language in a forum that explicitly allows adult language. Grow the fuck up or find a forum for kiddies.
I never said a damn fucking thing about language you asshole piece of fucking shit. I don't give one fuck about what fucking language you fucking use. Fucking swear all the fuck you want and fucking see if I fucking care. It's a false fucking accusation assclown and that's what happens when you fucking quote people and then fucking dishonestly replace what they actually fucking said with your stupid shit reinterpretation of it. But since you brought the fucking subject up asshole, maybe you should take a fucking good look at what I'm fucking writing here. You may fucking think it makes you fucking look cool or fucking smart, but it obviously sounds damn stupid and fucking immature you cunt!

But I doubt you'll get it. Drinking Beverage

The above was written to illustrate a point. I'm not the least bit angry. But speaking of kiddies, I wonder how many read your posts. Dodgy

... AND STILL no actual thought from Taq about the OP... Drinking Beverage

Silence is only golden when it's not synonymous with a failure to speak out against injustice.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." --Gene Roddenberry
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25-06-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(25-06-2014 04:00 PM)Impulse Wrote:  If a theist is simply refusing to acknowledge the evidence or use logic, it can be frustrating, but it accomplishes nothing productive to be rude and belligerent about it.

And for a person who refuses to acknowledge the evidence or use logic, there is NOTHING you are going to be able to do to change that. You can be pussy all you want about it, but how's that working out with you on Jeremy?

Hobo

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-06-2014, 04:11 PM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(25-06-2014 04:09 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 04:00 PM)Impulse Wrote:  If a theist is simply refusing to acknowledge the evidence or use logic, it can be frustrating, but it accomplishes nothing productive to be rude and belligerent about it.

And for a person who refuses to acknowledge the evidence or use logic, there is NOTHING you are going to be able to do to change that. You can be pussy all you want about it, but how's that working out with you on Jeremy?

Hobo
Fine, because most times I ignore him. You, on the other hand, spend endless posts confronting him and how's that working for YOU. I see he's still here going strong. Drinking Beverage

Silence is only golden when it's not synonymous with a failure to speak out against injustice.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." --Gene Roddenberry
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25-06-2014, 04:12 PM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(25-06-2014 04:09 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 03:51 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  That's not strawmanning in the least, asshole. Pretty fucking stupid to cry about language in a forum that explicitly allows adult language. Grow the fuck up or find a forum for kiddies.
I never said a damn fucking thing about language you asshole piece of fucking shit. I don't give one fuck about what fucking language you fucking use. Fucking swear all the fuck you want and fucking see if I fucking care. It's a false fucking accusation assclown and that's what happens when you fucking quote people and then fucking dishonestly replace what they actually fucking said with your stupid shit reinterpretation of it. But since you brought the fucking subject up asshole, maybe you should take a fucking good look at what I'm fucking writing here. You may fucking think it makes you fucking look cool or fucking smart, but it obviously sounds damn stupid and fucking immature you cunt!


Dont try to cuss, son, your'e no fucking good at it.


Quote:But I doubt you'll get it. Drinking Beverage

I get that you're a pussy who wants to mollycoddle trolls and can't handle adult language. So the fuck what.


Quote:The above was written to illustrate a point. I'm not the least bit angry. But speaking of kiddies, I wonder how many read your posts. Dodgy

... AND STILL no actual thought from Taq about the OP... Drinking Beverage

You want some cheese with that whine, bitch?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-06-2014, 04:16 PM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(25-06-2014 04:12 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 04:09 PM)Impulse Wrote:  I never said a damn fucking thing about language you asshole piece of fucking shit. I don't give one fuck about what fucking language you fucking use. Fucking swear all the fuck you want and fucking see if I fucking care. It's a false fucking accusation assclown and that's what happens when you fucking quote people and then fucking dishonestly replace what they actually fucking said with your stupid shit reinterpretation of it. But since you brought the fucking subject up asshole, maybe you should take a fucking good look at what I'm fucking writing here. You may fucking think it makes you fucking look cool or fucking smart, but it obviously sounds damn stupid and fucking immature you cunt!


Dont try to cuss, son, your'e no fucking good at it.


Quote:But I doubt you'll get it. Drinking Beverage

I get that you're a pussy who wants to mollycoddle trolls and can't handle adult language. So the fuck what.


Quote:The above was written to illustrate a point. I'm not the least bit angry. But speaking of kiddies, I wonder how many read your posts. Dodgy

... AND STILL no actual thought from Taq about the OP... Drinking Beverage

You want some cheese with that whine, bitch?
Out of consideration for the OP, I'm not derailing the thread any further. It's obviously pointless with you anyway. Maybe when you become an adult some day you'll understand little boy. Say what you want in reply to this. I'm done.

Silence is only golden when it's not synonymous with a failure to speak out against injustice.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." --Gene Roddenberry
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25-06-2014, 04:16 PM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(25-06-2014 04:11 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 04:09 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  And for a person who refuses to acknowledge the evidence or use logic, there is NOTHING you are going to be able to do to change that. You can be pussy all you want about it, but how's that working out with you on Jeremy?

Hobo
Fine, because most times I ignore him. You, on the other hand, spend endless posts confronting him and how's that working for YOU.

It's working GREAT. He's reduced to blubbering the same nonsense over and over, because no tactic works for him any more. He's so flustered he won't even answer my posts anymore. Thumbsup


Quote: I see he's still here going strong. Drinking Beverage

You call resorting to desperately repeating the same nonsense he's been destroyed on over and over "going strong"? Not a single person on this forum takes him seriously.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-06-2014, 04:19 PM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(25-06-2014 04:16 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 04:12 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Dont try to cuss, son, your'e no fucking good at it.



I get that you're a pussy who wants to mollycoddle trolls and can't handle adult language. So the fuck what.



You want some cheese with that whine, bitch?
Out of consideration for the OP, I'm not derailing the thread any further. It's obviously pointless with you anyway. Maybe when you become an adult some day you'll understand little boy. Say what you want in reply to this. I'm done.

Maybe one day YOU'LL become an adult one day and quit whining like a bitch when others don't play your pansy-ass pattycake games with trolls in an adult forum. Go cry to your mommy, pussy.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-06-2014, 04:40 PM
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(25-06-2014 04:09 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 04:00 PM)Impulse Wrote:  If a theist is simply refusing to acknowledge the evidence or use logic, it can be frustrating, but it accomplishes nothing productive to be rude and belligerent about it.

And for a person who refuses to acknowledge the evidence or use logic, there is NOTHING you are going to be able to do to change that. You can be pussy all you want about it, but how's that working out with you on Jeremy?

Hobo

I will agree (and I think Impulse would agree as well) that you're not going to change Jeremy Walker's mind, no matter what tactics you use. But I don't think that's the point. There are other people reading these posts, some of whom may be fence-sitters, and when one person is arguing/debating in a calm, reasonable manner (even if what they're saying is bullshit) and the other person is just hurling insults and profanity, the average fence-sitter will tend to side with the calm, reasonable one, even though he may be wrong. Think about the wider audience, not just the one guy who refuses to get it. Mere invective convinces no-one of anything.
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25-06-2014, 04:47 PM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2014 04:51 PM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: I'm Too Hostile to Believers
(25-06-2014 04:40 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Blah blah blah.... and when one person is arguing/debating in a calm, reasonable manner (even if what they're saying is bullshit)...blah blah blah...

Oh, great, now we get to hear a fucking Tone Argument. You know, if someone's demeanor and tone is more convincing to you than the fact that they are spouting bullshit, all I can say is fuck you.



Quote:Blah blah blah....and the other person is just hurling insults and profanity blah blah blah...

Excuse me? I don't *JUST* hurl invectives and profanity. Strawman much?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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