I'm a creationist. Now let me try to rationalize evolution.
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31-12-2013, 06:44 PM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2013 08:12 PM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: I'm a creationist. Now let me try to rationalize evolution.
(31-12-2013 12:07 PM)Fat Mac Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 11:52 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Your refusal to accept the validity of science begins to leak into other branches of science and snowballs out of control. You spend the rest of your days in a mental bubble, refusing to expand your mind or seek any truths to life's questions, sedating yourself by rocking back and forth, quietly whispering, "God did it" over and over until you die in a puddle of your own urine.

A creationist is usually brought up and raised as a creationist. Their religious beliefs don't have to mean that they're morons and can't "expand their minds" or "seek any truths." A bit of a misrepresentation.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of atheists were raised in religious families. The indoctrinating thing is so powerful that most creationists refuse to accept anything else as being valid. People fear what they don't understand, so what could be scarier than entertaining the notion that something that you have been brought up to believe in your entire life is not true, especially when you are taught that this whole belief in a supernatural being is where your morality comes from. What I get passed off with is the "My beliefs make me superior to you" bullshit that creationists are constantly spouting.

For me, deconversion was not difficult. I didn't grow up in a family that was strict with religious beliefs. I noticed that religious people had this attitude that "the Bible is God's word and is not to be questioned". Well, why would anything that is true be afraid of questioning? The more I paid attention to religion, the more I realized it was a money making scam. Then there was the Catholic Church covering up child rape and molestation, and there is nothing that angers me more than the sexual abuse of children. I gave up, never regretted it, and never looked back.

I must also add that I probably would have become an atheist much sooner in my life if there were other atheists that I knew to discuss the subject with. The vast majority of friends I grew up with were Christian, and the ones that told me in adulthood that they didn't believe when they were growing up said they remained closet atheists because they feared going against the grain of society.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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01-01-2014, 01:47 AM
RE: I'm a creationist. Now let me try to rationalize evolution.
I'll say it again. What really pisses me off about YEC arguments aren't the flaws in the argument (which irritate me greatly) or the fact that people believe them (which also irritates me), or the really fucked up things that that belief makes people do.

... okay, fine, all of that pisses me off.

But what REALLY pisses me off, the proverbial cherry on top of the bullshit split sundae, is how incredibly incompetent these arguments are. I'd love to see a good apologetic argument! I might hate it for all the other stuff, but at least I'd RESPECT it! I don't believe, and even I can produce a better argument for YEC in the face of overwhelming physical evidence than these people can.

.... actually, this is a good thread for it. So here we go.

*puts on Poe hat* Lecture_preist

[POE]
Yes, the Earth was Created by God. And yes, as the Bible relates, it was created in six literal days. I won't say that they were 24 hours exactly. Science tells us that the spin of the Earth is gradually losing rotational momentum, and I wouldn't care to speculate how quickly God set it spinning way back then. Maybe it was faster than one rotation per 24 hours. But something close to 24 hours, I would guess. Maybe faster.

And yes, we have all this fossil evidence that points to a much older history. But what you have to understand is that when the Earth was created, so too were those fossils. They were created in place. So too were the geological strata. The photons appearing to come to us from distant stars and galaxies and cosmic background radiation were actually poofed into being in-transit, just where they would have been and traveling the same direction they would have been traveling in if the whole Big Bang theory were actually true. In effect, a broad, grand, wholly consistent, epic fictional history of the universe was written introduced to almost every aspect of reality, from our smallest cell to the entirety of the night sky.

It's tempting to blame this on the devil, but that doesn't fit. The devil's power is great, but it is not that great. Not great enough to totally reauthor creation. That would make the devil the equal of God, and this is not true. But recall how the devil works. Deception, yes. We all know that the devil is the Deceiver, the prince of lies. Yet you'd have to worry about that whichever way you believed. But more than anything else, the devil works on us through PRIDE. You are special, the devil whispers to us in our hearts. Your mind is greater than God's. Your will is greater. You need not have humility. You can reshape the world to your desires, for you can be like God yourself, if you but give in to temptation. It is PRIDE which is the devil's calling card, and HUMILITY which is the shield against Satan's influence. So what tickles our pride the most? The message that we are special, that we were created special and that we are the whole purpose of the entirety of existence? Or that we are merely the descendents of worms, clinging to life in a thin film of air on a mote of dust around a single spark in a universe so vast that it defies our imagination? WHICH OF THESE SPEAKS TO OUR PRIDE? Which of these bears the mark of Satan?

No, this message written into reality is not from the devil. It is from God. God wrote this fiction for us, this fictional record of dinosaurs and evolution and a Big Bang ten or fifteen billion years ago. It is a revelation! Just now being uncovered, but authored thousands of years before Christ walked the Earth. It is part of Creation and God is the author of Creation. It came from God, and any who deny this message are denying God Himself!

But wait, you might say. The Bible tells us that this is false. The Bible TELLS us of a six-day creation. Has God lied to us? Has God written a lie into the Book, or into reality? Which is it, you might ask!

It is neither. God has filled the Bible with falsehoods, yes, but these falsehoods are not lies. When the man gave the talents to his three slaves to invest and one buried it in the ground, that was not a true story. That was a parable! It was a false story, but it was a false story with a true lesson! It was meant to teach, not deceive, and that makes it a parable rather than a lie. When God walked this Earth, when he taught us, He taught us in parables! The Bible is filled with parables! And this, this grand sweeping fictional account of a vast cosmic history, this is a parable too, for it is in parables that God speaks to us.

And how should we judge this parable? By the fruits it has born! The tales found in the fossil record and in astronomy have been a boon to us all! They have told us about the ongoing process of evolution, given us an understanding of the world which has led to revolutions in agriculture and medicine. It warns us of mass extinction, of climatic calamities. Even in the moment of Creation, God knew that we might one day become so powerful as to destroy this world we live on, and wrote out a warning that we would be able to read once we became that threat. And studying the Heavens has also expanded our knowledge a hundred-fold, a thousand-fold, giving us great knowledge and great wisdom. We see in Venus the ultimate warning of greenhouse warming. In the motions of the planets, we discover the same laws of physics that govern our lives here on Earth. In the fictional geological history, we learn of techtonic plates. We come to understand earthquakes, and might one day learn to predict, avoid, or prevent them.

This is the message of a loving God, one that wishes us to grow, and learn, and avoid that which will cause us harm. He has given us the revelation we need to understand it, and yet the most prideful of us insist on ignoring His warnings! Insist on ignoring His Word! Insist on denying His mercy and His revelation! On denying Him! They insist that they know God better than Creation does, when Creation is God's work! They have put their own understanding before God's work! And then, in the height of their arrogance, they compound their sins by forcing their false witness upon others.

But a true Christian will always recognize God's truth, and God's truth is, has, and always will be His Creation. A true Christian shall study this revelation deeply, unafraid of any blows it offers to the pride, accepting the advice it offers us in full humility. Just as a true Christian should read any parable in the Bible.
[/POE]

(tl;dr: Omphalos hypothesis, but with my own twist where the criticism of God being deceptive is countered by a claim that this is God being benevolent. Though likely someone came up with this before I did.)

When a believer in young-Earth creation can't, with all their straining, come up with an apologetic that explains the physical evidence one tenth as well as an atheist can do out of boredom... that's when you KNOW they aren't getting any guidance from God.

(.... or, you know, long before they failed to do that, but that's the clincher, if it wasn't clinched already, which it was.)
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01-01-2014, 02:10 AM
RE: I'm a creationist. Now let me try to rationalize evolution.
Those who seek to rationalize the truth are those who are unwilling to accept that their beliefs in opposition to the truth are false.
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