Poll: I am a former...
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I'm a former _______.
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19-04-2016, 09:06 PM
RE: I'm a former _______.
(19-04-2016 07:17 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(19-04-2016 03:11 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  What I'm trying to say is, there is no "plain" Christian who doesn't belong to a denomination. Catholicism is a denomination, not a religion.

I was raised roman catholic and I like to read. I've read a lot about religions since I deconverted. Based on all that, here is my understanding:

You can be a christian but not a catholic. You cannot be a catholic unless you are christian.

Roman catholicism:
This is the "traditional" church that claims to trace it's origins back to christ and the apostles. They claim true orthodoxy, based on their hierarchy of popes going back to peter. Also the only ones who practice reconciliation/confession.

Greek/Russian orthodoxy:
These are very close to the RC's in theology and doctrine. The differences are I think mostly political, related to pope choices/doctrines in the middle ages. I'm fairly certain both Greek and Russian have their own popes.

Protestant:
Methodist/Baptist/Lutheran/Presbyterian/etc. All splintered off from RC's during the middle ages. All left over theological disagreements, papal and clerical corruption, etc.

Non-denominational christians
There are thousands of "non-denomination" christian churches in the US. These are essentially individual or clusters of churches. Most are organized around a preacher or family of preachers. Televangelists are often considered non-denominational. Basically they get popular enough to establish their own version of christianity.

Mormons or LDS
A version of christianity that was founded by a convicted conman. Need I say more?

It all boils down to cafeteria christianity. Take your holy book (the bible) pick and choose which versions, which rules, which passages to follow, interpret them to fit your message.


The major difference is historical and has to do with the emperor Constantine moving the capital, and ALL the VIP's with him. He took the best priests, artists, scholars, engineers etc.

This pissed off the Romans left behind, as Ammianus clearly states in his history from his own experience of having visited Rome.

The church left behind was gradually influenced by pagan priests who, once Christianity was made the official religion by Constantine, found themselves dirt poor and in need of food and shelter. One could become a Xian and collect a coin and a cloak. So conversion was easy. One could even avoid taxation. Something which remains to this day if one was a member of the clergy.

As the pagans began to inhabit the Roman church, various rituals followed with them. Now we see various forms of pagan dress and hats and whatnot in catholicism. Something not seen so much in the orthodoxy.

When Rome fell in the west, the head of the church wished to retain power. Damasus I, took control of the church by having his rival in Rome murdered. Damasus I became the first Pope. Rome was no longer under control from the east and things went in different directions. Rome was actually controlled by various tribes of Huns and Goths. The church used its religion to gain influence over the several rulers who styled themselves as emperors. The church, while retaining power, could support them.

We do not know exactly how many different influences changed catholicism over the years. Change though it did. Much to the chagrin of the real emperors in Constantinople and their various church leaders. All emperors had advisors. Who could forget Sejanus? The very name sends chills up one's spine to this day.

Anyway all this is worthy of a book. Needless to say POWER was the major difference in the different regions, that created the pope. Who of course is both stylised and derived from the pagan Pontifex Maximus. A post of high priest. Indeed, a post once held be Caesar himself.

I could go on and on and on..... Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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19-04-2016, 09:22 PM
RE: I'm a former _______.
(19-04-2016 06:50 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-04-2016 05:20 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  I'm a former Republican

That's a disease, not a religion. Tongue

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19-04-2016, 10:30 PM
RE: I'm a former _______.
I'm a former nothing. I didn't have to break away from it because there was nothing there to break away from. So I guess that still makes me a nothing. Girl_nails

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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20-04-2016, 02:31 AM
RE: I'm a former _______.
(19-04-2016 07:17 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I was raised roman catholic and I like to read. I've read a lot about religions since I deconverted. Based on all that, here is my understanding:

You can be a christian but not a catholic. You cannot be a catholic unless you are christian.

That could be said by anyone.

"You can be a Christian but not a Protestant/Orthodox/Evangelical/whatever. You cannot be a Protestant/Orthodox/Evangelical/whatever unless you are Christian."

It doesn't say much Tongue

(19-04-2016 07:17 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Roman catholicism:
This is the "traditional" church that claims to trace it's origins back to christ and the apostles. They claim true orthodoxy, based on their hierarchy of popes going back to peter. Also the only ones who practice reconciliation/confession.

Greek/Russian orthodoxy:
These are very close to the RC's in theology and doctrine. The differences are I think mostly political, related to pope choices/doctrines in the middle ages. I'm fairly certain both Greek and Russian have their own popes.

Protestant:
Methodist/Baptist/Lutheran/Presbyterian/etc. All splintered off from RC's during the middle ages. All left over theological disagreements, papal and clerical corruption, etc.

Non-denominational christians
There are thousands of "non-denomination" christian churches in the US. These are essentially individual or clusters of churches. Most are organized around a preacher or family of preachers. Televangelists are often considered non-denominational. Basically they get popular enough to establish their own version of christianity.

Mormons or LDS
A version of christianity that was founded by a convicted conman. Need I say more?

It all boils down to cafeteria christianity. Take your holy book (the bible) pick and choose which versions, which rules, which passages to follow, interpret them to fit your message.

We were taught about the East-West schism in the Byzantine empire extensively at school, so I know much of Christianity's history. That was the first time Christians were officially divided. Any later denominations that popped up were "secondary". However, in popularity, many of them seem to be of equal importance.

"Non denominational" is a term used mainly (or perhaps only) in the US. If you believe in Christ, you are a Christian. It doesn't matter what denomination you're in.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is that people in the US tend to see Catholicism as a different religion, or at least as a completely different kind of Christianity, while we here in Greece see Catholics the exact same way we see any other kind of Christian denomination (heretics! Hobo ).

And of course Christians will pick and choose and form their own religion and then call themselves Christians, even if their beliefs are at odds even with the denomination they belong to Facepalm

As for "Eastern popes", they're not exactly "popes", but rather priests of different levels of importance.

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20-04-2016, 02:46 AM
RE: I'm a former _______.
A former child.. that's about it. Physically that is.. sorta.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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20-04-2016, 05:13 AM
RE: I'm a former _______.
(19-04-2016 03:19 PM)DerFish Wrote:  
(19-04-2016 02:38 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  It's interesting how people argue about who's a real Christian. Have they not read Matthew 7:5?

In so many ways the Seventh Day Adventists are closer to Catholics than to anyone else. Only Adventists and Catholics have you standing and kneeling and sitting an average of 12 changes per church service. I didn't, of course' know that while being a member, but later having married a couple of different Catholic women I found that out. After leaving the SDA's I had visited a dozen different protestant churches looking for the right one.

Episcopalians also stand and kneel and sit a bunch, and they have a mass that is very similar to the Catholic mass.

Baptist here, but I was an Episcopalian for a while in college and have attended many Catholic masses.
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20-04-2016, 05:35 AM
RE: I'm a former _______.
(20-04-2016 02:31 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  "You can be a Christian but not a Protestant/Orthodox/Evangelical/whatever. You cannot be a Protestant/Orthodox/Evangelical/whatever unless you are Christian."

It doesn't say much Tongue

Agreed. It's all semantics.

(20-04-2016 02:31 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  We were taught about the East-West schism in the Byzantine empire extensively at school, so I know much of Christianity's history. That was the first time Christians were officially divided. Any later denominations that popped up were "secondary". However, in popularity, many of them seem to be of equal importance.

Agreed. When you are arguing over which fiction is true, popularity is the only measure of success.

(20-04-2016 02:31 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  "Non denominational" is a term used mainly (or perhaps only) in the US. If you believe in Christ, you are a Christian. It doesn't matter what denomination you're in.

That was my understanding as well. Non-denominational basically means diluted until palatable.

(20-04-2016 02:31 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is that people in the US tend to see Catholicism as a different religion, or at least as a completely different kind of Christianity, while we here in Greece see Catholics the exact same way we see any other kind of Christian denomination (heretics! Hobo ).

Again, we agree. I've heard people call catholics "idol worshippers" because there are statues of jesus, mary, etc. in the churches.

It's like hearing people argue over which is better: Star Trek or Star Wars?

(20-04-2016 02:31 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  And of course Christians will pick and choose and form their own religion and then call themselves Christians, even if their beliefs are at odds even with the denomination they belong to Facepalm

That describes the "non-denominational" churches perfectly.

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20-04-2016, 05:41 AM
RE: I'm a former _______.
I was formerly an atheist.
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20-04-2016, 05:50 AM
RE: I'm a former _______.
(19-04-2016 09:06 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I could go on and on and on..... Wink

Please do! Corrections, clarifications and verifications are all appreciated. Thumbsup

Doesn't the Ethiopian church trace it's roots back to very early christianity also?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

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20-04-2016, 08:10 AM
RE: I'm a former _______.
(20-04-2016 02:31 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  As for "Eastern popes", they're not exactly "popes", but rather priests of different levels of importance.

Eastern Popes are not popes at all. Not at least as we know them. The post of Pope is seen as a direct link to god, as in a god on earth as far as catholicism is concerned.

As for places like Ethiopia, mentioned earlier. There were so many variations Constantine called for the council of Nicea. None could agree and Constantine intervened.

There was the Arian controversy and various other problems. In the east there were the later iconoclasms, which did not happen in the west. Likely due to the pagan influence with its long history of idols and statues.

All this is of course worthy of its own thread. So as not to hijack this one, as I am known to do. I shall stop.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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