I'm giving up.
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21-11-2015, 10:13 AM
RE: I'm giving up.
Bring on a preferential voting system (alternative vote). Without that you'll be pretty much always be stuck with the same two choices.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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21-11-2015, 10:36 AM
RE: I'm giving up.
I'm voting Bernie.
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21-11-2015, 10:47 AM
RE: I'm giving up.
(13-11-2015 12:57 PM)Ace Wrote:  really ? this video game me the opposite impression

You people posting your phones never cease yo entertain me. Big Grin

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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21-11-2015, 10:49 AM
RE: I'm giving up.
(21-11-2015 10:36 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I'm voting Bernie.

I doubt I'll get to unless he makes it to the general. I have to decide which one of the stooges entertains me most.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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22-11-2015, 06:51 PM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2015 07:07 PM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: I'm giving up.
(12-11-2015 05:49 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(12-11-2015 09:09 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  CL -- I was a member of the Libertarian party for many, many years - and have voted accordingly....

I even ran for Sheriff and was on the ballot as the Libertarian candidate...

I just don't see the ( L )'s running anything better than the other two parties....

I just don't get the idea behind it all though. If you want there to be better candidates, it would work more likely and more with a chance to do something if the party itself or any of the others, had more support.

Supporting the idea before it is successful helps increase the chance of it actually becoming successful. Instead of waiting for something to be successful to begin supporting it. That's the proactive manner of ways which actually leads to improvements.

I don't like the specific candidates either, I voted for Gary Johnson but I don't like him too much... but I know he wasn't going to win or anything of that sort.

The tyranny of small decisions allows attitudes like onlinebiker's to proliferate though and cut against your calls for proactive engagement. Hell, it's why many broken systems humans utilize don't get fixed: successful change that relies upon the broad support of a group require enough of the members to believe the change can actually occur if they try. Third party candidates don't receive as much support in the US precisely because a good chunk of their potential ideologically matched electorate dismiss their chances of winning.

First of all, first past-the-post voting always results in two-party systems like we have in the U.S. since most political voting blocs will streamline the bulk of their support into the group with the broadest appeal among their respective sides of the political spectrum rather than the party which they think best represents their viewpoints. One could argue this bears testament to the inefficiency of first past the post voting in a democratically representative system and that first past the post should never be used. Except we already have used it, for the entirety of our country's history; it's outlined in the Constitution. The entrenched political elite has no interest reshaping the election structure in a way that will remove their power.

This would leave it up to the voters to support a third party, but many feel this would be a throwaway vote due to the logistics of the electoral process. So they either:

A. Continue supporting the major party which better represents their interests (or which one less opposes their values)
B. Support a third party which stands no chance of election
C. Don't vote.

It's not hard to see why voter apathy and protest votes are common sentiments among the American public then. Many are dissatisfied with the current race-to-the-bottom circus show politics has become. But what is one to do? The system is broken, but in order to fix it, everybody else would need to agree on the solution and believe others would also be willing to vote against the two major parties in an election in sufficient quantities to matter. So the disaffected stay home and don't vote, letting others dictate who gets elected and only continue the cycle of shitty election options with two candidates battling to see who is the shiniest of two turds.

Besides, since it's first past the post, are there even enough American voters that would consider even one third party a better ideological fit than either of the two major parties for it to stand any chance of winning elections? It seems to me that once a two party system is engendered, it immediately becomes a deeply rooted model highly resistant to reformation. Has there ever been a switch from a two-party system to a multi-party system in modern history achieved outside of deposing of a governing body wholesale? Or a transition away from first-past-the-post to a different voting system like alternative voting or proportional representation? It seems like it would be a rather herculean task.

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24-11-2015, 09:04 PM (This post was last modified: 24-11-2015 09:33 PM by Ted Tucker.)
RE: I'm giving up.
Do we really want a Trump or a Carson in the whitehouse??

Hold your nose suppress the gag reflex and VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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24-11-2015, 09:10 PM
RE: I'm giving up.
I'm thinking of just writing in "Science!" on next year's election ballot Cool

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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