I'm happy with Mystic Agnosticism
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23-08-2015, 05:41 AM
RE: I'm happy with Mystic Agnosticism
At work.

To magic matt..... Hello! Big Grin
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23-08-2015, 09:27 AM (This post was last modified: 23-08-2015 09:32 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: I'm happy with Mystic Agnosticism
(23-08-2015 03:30 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Whiskey, I think you're giving him a much harder time than he asked for. He is not trying to convince us that this thing he believes in really exists, he's just simply saying that something inside him tells him that it does. Come on, most of us have been there at some point. This is on "Positive Atheism" anyway.

Yes, he may have made some weak arguments and mistakes but I think he's just having a hard time expressing himself.

That said, my spidey senses are tingling on this one for some reason. I see some familiar patterns. But I'll just leave it to that for now.

Believe me I held way way back on this one cause I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but when he chooses to respond to a one sentence and very basic question with what he did I will hold his feet to the fire over the things that are just demonstrably wrong. Not because I want to pock fun and laugh, but because I want to help correct the errors in his thinking so he can have a more accurate world view. I wanna help, I'm just not the "hold your hand and skip through the meadow working out our problems" kinda guy.

I asked him for evidence and got a response about his life story, spankings, a nice heaping pile of New Ager persecution complex, and a whole bunch of other unrelated nonsense and not anything bordering on an answer to the question I asked. He got off light but that's only because he seems like a nice enough guy. Irrational maybe but genuinely nice.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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23-08-2015, 04:55 PM
RE: I'm happy with Mystic Agnosticism
I don't know what to tell you whiskey. You are asking for the answer to the fermi paradox I would guess. If we are like an ant hill in the forest and a 10 lane super highway is built near us. "I don't believe humans would notice what it was" And I don't think humans will ever have the answer to that until we stop being humans. If you are asking for my standing on humanism, I'm a transhumanist. And I more believe in the concept of aliens than "gods".

I don't want to be taken "seriously". I don't have a high school diploma and I'm on this forum for recreation. I know there are atheists/agnostics that are open to talking about the fermi paradox. Not every atheist is made of pure logic like yourself whiskey lol. I'm dependent on being intuitive for mental results.

And if you want to know why I can't sway from mysticism. I'll honestly tell you that its a character flaw. I personally have issues with being to cynical of loved ones. I once converted to atheism to fast and spiraled with it till I was skeptical of the most mildly of abnormal claims... So I try to be open to mysticism for the sake of opening my mind to other peoples perspectives. Its a "pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified" Aspergers thing. You seem to be asking me for answers to something we both know is a mental issue with me. Its not that I'm "believing" in it. I just need to practice empathy building exercises for my Aspergers disorder. And crazy as it sounds. At least I have already admited it sounds crazy and that I don't even like to spend $1 on it.

I'm not a danger to others whiskey. I know its a delusion if I invest in it.
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23-08-2015, 05:50 PM
RE: I'm happy with Mystic Agnosticism
Matt: Hug

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-08-2015, 10:06 PM
RE: I'm happy with Mystic Agnosticism
(22-08-2015 10:41 PM)magic matt Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 09:57 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Your evidence for any of this is...what exactly?

I don't think you understand. By the logic of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" And "basic claims require basic evidence" I'm not investing much into it. I don't have any leaders at all. And only spend money on things that can be used for another purpose.

I don't have proof of any "force" Other than the claim that any "force" would be so far beyond human understanding that I "believe" that it "wouldn't" want a personal relationship with us.

I've not made the claim that I can predict things with this theory. Therefore I'm not bound to produce evidence. And in case you didn't know, there are a lot of theories that get past hypothesis stage simply because they didn't make big claims. However, I've never been able to get along with closed minded atheists before as they tend to have never heard of the things that make me a valued human. I naturally am able to think of counter possibilities of any structured concept much easier than most people. Which is why I was never able to develop well within an evangelical church. I don't have the "intelligence" to predict that Christianity is wrong from my Christian home schooled perspective. which would be a lot required as I did say "home schooled". And no one in my life ever reached out to me to convert me to "alternative views" I'm just naturally brilliant at thinking outside the box. Which got me held back at home schooling by pissing off Christian home school group teachers into punishing me for "doubt" which was actually just how my brain works.

I have Aspergers disorder and don't conform easily. My child hood was tormented by stay at home mom's that spank kids in the name of "God"... Some spanking sessions would go on for hundreds of spankings at a very young age for me. And sadly new age people view me as an "indigo child" because of my different type of brain. So I find a much easier time talking to new age people even though I don't share there gnostic views. The reason I came here was in hopes of finding atheists/agnostics that can see intelligence aside from school based education.

It always seems to be something with automatic argumentative subtext in this community. I just want some healthy discussion rather than debate. Now that is about all I have to say about your three periods that described my problems I've had with the atheist community over the past 5 years. Always the same thing that drives me away it seems...

Are you related to Magic Mike ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-08-2015, 10:12 PM
RE: I'm happy with Mystic Agnosticism
(23-08-2015 10:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 10:41 PM)magic matt Wrote:  I don't think you understand. By the logic of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" And "basic claims require basic evidence" I'm not investing much into it. I don't have any leaders at all. And only spend money on things that can be used for another purpose.

I don't have proof of any "force" Other than the claim that any "force" would be so far beyond human understanding that I "believe" that it "wouldn't" want a personal relationship with us.

I've not made the claim that I can predict things with this theory. Therefore I'm not bound to produce evidence. And in case you didn't know, there are a lot of theories that get past hypothesis stage simply because they didn't make big claims. However, I've never been able to get along with closed minded atheists before as they tend to have never heard of the things that make me a valued human. I naturally am able to think of counter possibilities of any structured concept much easier than most people. Which is why I was never able to develop well within an evangelical church. I don't have the "intelligence" to predict that Christianity is wrong from my Christian home schooled perspective. which would be a lot required as I did say "home schooled". And no one in my life ever reached out to me to convert me to "alternative views" I'm just naturally brilliant at thinking outside the box. Which got me held back at home schooling by pissing off Christian home school group teachers into punishing me for "doubt" which was actually just how my brain works.

I have Aspergers disorder and don't conform easily. My child hood was tormented by stay at home mom's that spank kids in the name of "God"... Some spanking sessions would go on for hundreds of spankings at a very young age for me. And sadly new age people view me as an "indigo child" because of my different type of brain. So I find a much easier time talking to new age people even though I don't share there gnostic views. The reason I came here was in hopes of finding atheists/agnostics that can see intelligence aside from school based education.

It always seems to be something with automatic argumentative subtext in this community. I just want some healthy discussion rather than debate. Now that is about all I have to say about your three periods that described my problems I've had with the atheist community over the past 5 years. Always the same thing that drives me away it seems...

Are you related to Magic Mike ?

So I wasn't the only one who thought it...

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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23-08-2015, 10:24 PM
RE: I'm happy with Mystic Agnosticism
Well okay I give more than $1 every now and then on a leap of faith. I put my main desktop on 24/7 computing donation on the berkeley world community grid boinc program. The mind modeling tickled my fancy and I had a great full tower over sized cooler master brand tower to keep my parts cool. And a working air conditioner to boot. That and it doesn't even use up that much of my processing. I was surprised to find out that it powers down to low use of my systems limit constantly and doesn't even reduce my response time hardly at all. Its only cons are in how much time it takes to learn how to use it. Which isn't much time.

Please no one donate their computer processing speed unless they know about cooling and other desktop computer maintenance. You can break your desktop by using it to much. I've never broken one but I live sub ground level for constantly cool air.

Other than that its a great way to justify purchasing a new computer by learning how to use up the one you already have.
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23-08-2015, 10:36 PM
RE: I'm happy with Mystic Agnosticism
(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  I don't know what to tell you whiskey. You are asking for the answer to the fermi paradox I would guess.
No actually I'm not. I'm asking you, I thought rather clearly, to provide evidence to justify your assertions/beliefs. I have no idea where all the apparent ambiguity or calls for entirely unrelated story time came from given my original request was a 9 word sentence.

You are making assertions. I want to know what reasonable evidence you have that lead to those conclusion because I care about views comporting to reality. To which you started whining about atheists and making up excuses to justify your refusal to meet the burden of proof. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but in my experience when people make assertions and then try to make up excuses for why they don't have to prove it they are generally either delusional or a conman.

(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  If we are like an ant hill in the forest and a 10 lane super highway is built near us. "I don't believe humans would notice what it was" And I don't think humans will ever have the answer to that until we stop being humans.
Right but given that you have provided exactly zero evidence that this "force" exists outside human understanding I can dismiss your assertion as groundless and discount it as a valid excuse for not meeting the burden of proof. You have given your opinion on several of it's characteristics despite your insistence that it's outside your own understanding. This makes your assertion not just baseless but self contradictory and incoherent.

(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  If you are asking for my standing on humanism, I'm a transhumanist. And I more believe in the concept of aliens than "gods".
No I'm not asking your for your standing on humanism I'm asking if you have any evidence to support your belief that a "force" (as you have described it here) existing is factually true. Again it was a single sentence. What is your evidence to justify your belief or is your belief one held irrationally?

(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  I don't want to be taken "seriously".
Then why the hell should anyone engage you in conversation? If one party in a discussion cares about logic, evidence, rationality, and reality and the other one could give a flying toss and feels entitled to making up whatever wild nonsense they like with no impetus to prove it how can you expect to have a fruitful conversation? There is not even an even playing field there as you can say whatever tickles your taint at that particular moment and we have to give serious consideration to whether what we say is demonstrably true or not.
If you are not interested in being taken seriously then you are likely to be taken, and largely treated, as a joke which would be unfortunate 'cause you seem like a perfectly nice guy.

(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  I don't have a high school diploma and I'm on this forum for recreation.
That's nice and all but none of that absolves you of your burden of proof if you want to use your assertions in a discussion. You still need to provide some reason for us to think they have any basis in reality or we are just talking fan fiction nonsense and there is gonna be very little to discuss given your delusion only exists in your head and the rest of us have no access to it.

(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  Not every atheist is made of pure logic like yourself whiskey lol.
While I appreciate the complement I'm afraid I can't accept it because "hey what's your evidence for this extremely extraordinary claim about reality?" is not a bloody example of thinking through "pure logic". It's an entirely reasonable question that requires an answer if your claims are to have any place at a discussion among adults.

(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  I'm dependent on being intuitive for mental results.
Cool, what did you intuit from reality that leads you to believe? How do you know that what you have intuited is factually accurate and not a misapprehension?

(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  And if you want to know why I can't sway from mysticism. I'll honestly tell you that its a character flaw. I personally have issues with being to cynical of loved ones. I once converted to atheism to fast and spiraled with it till I was skeptical of the most mildly of abnormal claims... So I try to be open to mysticism for the sake of opening my mind to other peoples perspectives. Its a "pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified" Aspergers thing.
This is just a pendulum swing from one extreme to the other than and the later is no less a character flaw then the former. I also don't have those "problems" so my request for proof justifying your assertions is entirely reasonable.
Slightly unrelated however I feel it needs addressing: every single belief held in this modern age which commonly falls under the purview of the word "mystical" has repeatedly and spectacularly failed to live up to it's claims the second, the absolute second, those claims are investigated in any sound and reasonable manner. Mysticism whether it's astrology, divining, lay lines, this "indigo child" crap, or any other host of nonsense commonly peddled these days is make believe. It's either been proven not to work, or not been proven to work and the people selling this bunkum are either mentally ill or lying.

(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  You seem to be asking me for answers to something we both know is a mental issue with me.
No. No I am absolutely not. You made a claim and I asked you to support that claim which has utterly NOTHING to do with your mental state in any way shape or form. It's about figuring out if your beliefs map to reality or not.

(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  Its not that I'm "believing" in it.
In your opening post you say you "I simply believe in a mystic force".. and ..." yes I believe in some things that some others might call wacko" so now I have no idea what your position is as you are making contradictory statements.

(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  I just need to practice empathy building exercises for my Aspergers disorder. And crazy as it sounds. At least I have already admited it sounds crazy and that I don't even like to spend $1 on it.
I honestly couldn't care less how crazy it sounds (trust me I have heard way crazier on this site....regularly) I care if it's true. Which is why I asked what your evidence is that lead you to the conclusion there is a force and why your belief is a rational and justified belief. Your disorder has utterly nothing to do with, nor does it remove, your burden of proof.

(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  I'm not a danger to others whiskey.
I never said that you were, though I will point out that if your world view is based on irrationality and make believe, which at this point it seems to be at least partially, your probably not the best person to determine that.
That said no I don't think your a harm to others, however I always have and always will maintain that irrationality is harmful to ones self.

(23-08-2015 04:55 PM)magic matt Wrote:  I know its a delusion if I invest in it.
A belief held irrationally does not become a delusion because you invest in it. A delusion is a delusion if it's a belief that does not comport to reality. You could invest exactly zero dollars in it and if it does not comport to reality it's still a delusion.


This might not be coming across well but I actually kinda like you and I hope you stick around!

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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23-08-2015, 10:39 PM
RE: I'm happy with Mystic Agnosticism
(23-08-2015 10:12 PM)Nurse Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 10:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Are you related to Magic Mike ?

So I wasn't the only one who thought it...

Yes but we all knew that you at least were thinking it! HeartHeart

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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23-08-2015, 11:02 PM
RE: I'm happy with Mystic Agnosticism
Here's to good old Whiskey
His intro posts so frisky...

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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