I'm having problems believing in evolution
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10-12-2016, 01:32 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(10-12-2016 09:47 AM)Ask21771 Wrote:  What about living fossils?

It's taught on pretty much day one of any Intro to Biology course that the evolution of life is not a ladder that life climbs up, from bacteria to people, with people at the top and everything dying off in between. They teach that it's more like a tree, or bush.

Things branch out. Populations which don't face much natural selection pressure don't change much (turtles and crocodiles, for instance, are "living fossils", which were around before the dinosaurs), while other species under strong pressure can change drastically in only a few thousand generations.

Instead of thinking of evolution as a ladder that life "climbs up", think of ancient populations as the trunk of a tree which branches out into split trunks, then limbs, then branches, then twigs, then the leaves... the "leaves" are lines that are still around. Some of the branches won't reach the "surface" to produce a leaf... those are dead lineages. If a species doesn't change, then it grows straight up, but the more a species group changes, the more the branch "bends" away from the vertical. But all of them trace back in a line to the roots, even if not all of them reach the surface. That's the "tree of life"... the living fossils are the branches that didn't bend much.

Who told you that "living fossils" are a problem for evolution? They are woefully uninformed about biology, then, as in "should have learned this on day one".

Also, can you please respond to what I wrote about DNA, rather than just launching into a whole new area without even acknowledging it? I don't mean to criticize you, but there's an infamous Creationist named Duane Gish (founder of a big Creationist propaganda website) who was known for throwing numerous questions at biologists without acknowledging that the previous one had been answered. It's called the "Gish Gallop", and it's deeply irritating in these types of conversation.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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10-12-2016, 02:24 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
Sorry what was your question about dna
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10-12-2016, 02:44 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(08-12-2016 12:04 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  Okay so what proves my concerns wrong

You came pretarded, so I can't help you.
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10-12-2016, 03:39 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(10-12-2016 02:24 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  Sorry what was your question about dna

*sigh*
I didn't ask a question about DNA. I answered your question about DNA using my expertise in DNA and what it means in evolutionary biology.

Now you tell me, it appears, that you're not reading-- or at least, not carefully considering-- our replies to the questions about evolution you post here.

Why are you here, if not to ask questions and to learn from the answers?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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10-12-2016, 03:52 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(08-12-2016 11:56 AM)Ask21771 Wrote:  I want to believe evolution is real but I'm having two major problems

1. All the genetic evidence (from what I know of it) could be explained by common design

2. All the fossils used for evidence could just be fossils of similar now extinct species

Is there anyway to disprove either of my problems

1. Yes it could but with no evidence.

2. Incorrect.
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10-12-2016, 05:27 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(10-12-2016 03:39 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(10-12-2016 02:24 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  Sorry what was your question about dna

*sigh*
I didn't ask a question about DNA. I answered your question about DNA using my expertise in DNA and what it means in evolutionary biology.

Now you tell me, it appears, that you're not reading-- or at least, not carefully considering-- our replies to the questions about evolution you post here.

Why are you here, if not to ask questions and to learn from the answers?
When someone write that he has trouble believing in evolution then I doubt that someone good intentions.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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10-12-2016, 05:41 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(10-12-2016 09:47 AM)Ask21771 Wrote:  What about living fossils?

What paleontologists mean by "living fossils" is that there are taxa that are very morphologically similar to species from the fossil record (like the horseshoe crab). But the species alive today aren't the same species in the fossil record and aren't morphologically identical to the fossilized species. These are species who have lived in the same habitat for millions to tens of millions to hundreds of millions of years and selecting pressures (for they and their ancestors) have remained relatively stable which resulted in little change through time.

Living fossils are a great example of stasis in the fossil record. Stasis is often (but not always) truncated by one of two things, punctuated equilibrium or extinction. In the former, periods of stasis are interrupted by "rapid" evolutionary change. If the events that create the punctuation are too severe or too sudden, then the species goes extinct. So, for living fossils, there haven't been any major events to result in these punctuated events of "rapid" evolution. And selection pressures remaining static means little to no gradual evolution.

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10-12-2016, 05:42 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(10-12-2016 02:24 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  Sorry what was your question about dna

What is this in reference to? Consider

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-12-2016, 06:07 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(10-12-2016 03:39 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(10-12-2016 02:24 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  Sorry what was your question about dna

*sigh*
I didn't ask a question about DNA. I answered your question about DNA using my expertise in DNA and what it means in evolutionary biology.

Now you tell me, it appears, that you're not reading-- or at least, not carefully considering-- our replies to the questions about evolution you post here.

Why are you here, if not to ask questions and to learn from the answers?

A lot of people have responded I can't remember all the ones I read
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10-12-2016, 07:18 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
KC
(10-12-2016 06:07 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  
(10-12-2016 03:39 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  *sigh*
I didn't ask a question about DNA. I answered your question about DNA using my expertise in DNA and what it means in evolutionary biology.

Now you tell me, it appears, that you're not reading-- or at least, not carefully considering-- our replies to the questions about evolution you post here.

Why are you here, if not to ask questions and to learn from the answers?

A lot of people have responded I can't remember all the ones I read

Or you're not interested in actually engaging with people who know what they're actually talking about. Just an observation. As you were.

Drinking Beverage

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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