I'm having problems believing in evolution
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10-12-2016, 09:51 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(08-12-2016 11:56 AM)Ask21771 Wrote:  I want to believe evolution is real but I'm having two major problems

1. All the genetic evidence (from what I know of it) could be explained by common design

2. All the fossils used for evidence could just be fossils of similar now extinct species

Is there anyway to disprove either of my problems

Explain how the mechanisms in common design work. I'm curious about reproduction from a common design standpoint ? How do you think babies grow and develop ? Are miscarriages part of the common design flaws ? Where does cancer fit into the common design system ? How does common design address changes in DNA ?
If a design is good, then why does it change over time ?

What predictions does common design make ?
Can you determine what kind of treatment a patient should get using common design to analyze their viral infection ?

As for fossils, how would you go about dating how old they were, how similar they are and how would you determine if they were genetically related or not ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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10-12-2016, 10:34 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(08-12-2016 11:56 AM)Ask21771 Wrote:  I want to believe evolution is real but I'm having two major problems

1. All the genetic evidence (from what I know of it) could be explained by common design

2. All the fossils used for evidence could just be fossils of similar now extinct species

Is there anyway to disprove either of my problems

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10-12-2016, 11:02 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(08-12-2016 11:56 AM)Ask21771 Wrote:  1. All the genetic evidence (from what I know of it) could be explained by common design.

I've been asked about this before. My reply is simple: Do you trust paternity tests? That may seem like a silly question until you realize that genetic testing is used to determine whether or not a child belongs to a given individual. When a child has a close enough genetic match to a male subject, the two are considered to be related. The same holds true for man's relationship with non-human apes. Dyning this causes one to back themselves into a corner as the "common design" argument can be used against them. If they have kids, any genetic relatedness between them is the result of a common designer, meaning that the children are not theirs. This is obviously a ludicrous idea.
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11-12-2016, 01:45 AM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2016 02:01 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(08-12-2016 11:56 AM)Ask21771 Wrote:  I want to believe evolution is real but I'm having two major problems

1. All the genetic evidence (from what I know of it) could be explained by common design

Not really. If common design were done along the lines of natural selection it would make no sense. Why purposefully design a creature like a human being with a chromosome made from splicing together two existing ape chromosomes or include fish or reptilian DNA in our genome complete with retroviral fragments from those same creatures in our genome. It serves no purpose to design wasteful systems like tonsils or appendixes or wisdom teeth into a purpose designed system, biological or otherwise. This stuff only really begins to make sense when viewed from the perspective of natural selection.

Quote:2. All the fossils used for evidence could just be fossils of similar now extinct species

Well, that's what a sabertooth cat or a wooly mammoth or a Megalodon or a T-Rex is: A similar, but now extinct species that acts as a sign post pointing to how the branches of the tree of life spread and progressed on earth driven by means of natural selection.

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11-12-2016, 03:41 AM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(10-12-2016 09:52 AM)Ask21771 Wrote:  Don't they at least cast some doubt on evolution, if not explain why

Survival is where it's at amigo. A so-called living fossil is a life-form that is very similar to it's ancestor that lived millions of years ago. All that that means is that the species was able to survive for a long period of time without its DNA changing too much. Perhaps by the species itself being relatively robust to e.g. habitat changes, perhaps by just being lucky. For example actual stromatolites have been found still living in Sharks Bay in Australia. These are possibly the oldest forms of life on the planet. It was thought that the conditions under which they could grow had long ceased to exist on the Earth. Yet they still survive in some places.

How do you conclude that this kind of thing casts doubt on evolution?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-12-2016, 03:44 AM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2016 03:56 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(10-12-2016 05:27 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(10-12-2016 03:39 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  *sigh*
I didn't ask a question about DNA. I answered your question about DNA using my expertise in DNA and what it means in evolutionary biology.

Now you tell me, it appears, that you're not reading-- or at least, not carefully considering-- our replies to the questions about evolution you post here.

Why are you here, if not to ask questions and to learn from the answers?
When someone write that he has trouble believing in evolution then I doubt that someone good intentions.

Yeah, particularly when you read this
Quote:I want to believe evolution is real

Clearly shows the mindset of a "liar for Jesus", which is what i guessed from his very first post. Rational and intellectually honest people dont "choose" what they believe.

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11-12-2016, 04:04 AM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
Ask,

Go back and read my first reply to you in this thread.

I posted a link to the full book, available online in pdf format, which was written by an evangelical Christian to his fellow Christians to explain why and how we know that the DNA proves evolution by common descent. He's literally one of the top biologists on the planet and yet he does a good job of putting it in common terms that are easy to understand.

It's free and a click away.

If you read it and still have questions or need part of the book explained, then come back and ask. I'll be happy to help.

But if you're not going to engage with those of us who try to respond to your questions, and you're not going to read the book by the guy who has no reason to lie and knows as much about it as anyone in the world, then it tells me you're more interested in looking for excuses to avoid the questions you're asking...or you're just here to waste our time.

Please engage, one way or the other, or move along. I know it sounds harsh, but it wouldn't be the first time a troll or religious fanatic came here thinking they could score points by throwing "unanswerable" questions at us and then systematically ignoring the answers we give, only to throw out more questions as if we hadn't answered the first ones.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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11-12-2016, 04:57 AM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
Hah Smile I missed the link. Thanks RS Smile I've got the book now. Looking forward to reading it!

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-12-2016, 05:28 AM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(11-12-2016 04:57 AM)morondog Wrote:  Hah Smile I missed the link. Thanks RS Smile I've got the book now. Looking forward to reading it!

Yeah, well brace yourself for the final couple of chapters. As long as he's speaking about biology, the man's on-point. The moment he starts trying to pretend he's an expert in physics, it "jumps the shark". He basically gives a version of the argument from fine-tuning, either unaware or unwilling to acknowledge the work of guys like Krauss and Hawking. (I was tempted to send him a copy of Mlodinow/Hawking's The Grand Design.) But it is, as I said, a good primer course on how DNA works, why we know what we know, and what it means in terms of evolution... and how we *know* evolution is reality.

He writes from the perspective of "please, fellow evangelical Christians, learn this material and stop making us all look like morons to the rest of the world", so it's not really meant for atheists... but it's good for understanding their mindset and how they [Edit: "they" = theistic evolutionists] read the data.

But you're welcome. Smile

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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11-12-2016, 06:17 AM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(08-12-2016 11:56 AM)Ask21771 Wrote:  I want to believe evolution is real but I'm having two major problems

1. All the genetic evidence (from what I know of it) could be explained by common design

2. All the fossils used for evidence could just be fossils of similar now extinct species

Is there anyway to disprove either of my problems?

(08-12-2016 11:56 AM)Ask21771 Wrote:  Okay so what proves my concerns wrong?

Nope. Genetic evidence can't be "explained" with common design—whatever you mean by that? Any/all designs obviously require a designer, and in over 2,000 years, there's been zero evidence put forward for any supernatural and/or intelligent designer.

Your second point about extant fossils being those of similar or now extinct species makes perfect sense. What's your point with this?

—Science has already proved the tenets of evolution; why are you having problems accepting that simple fact? Or are you inadvertently creating a straw man here?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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