I'm having problems believing in evolution
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11-12-2016, 07:13 AM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2016 07:22 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
If you were really honest about wanting to know the answers, there would be a couple of things you would do:

1. You would understand that Christian apologists are liars and not go to any of these websites to try to find answers.

2. You wouldn't go to an atheist forum, you would be on solid, biology and evolution sites that have nothing to do with apologism to find the answers.

Until you can "sniff out" apologist sites, you are not going to do anything but confuse yourself.

If you're here JAQ'ing off for jeebus, kindly drop your pretense, you're lying about your intentions.

Having said that, there is one recurring thing about the design question that needs an answer - What is the "intent" of design?

When a BACTERIAL flagellum seems to have a motor that seems designed, what's the intent? That motor is there for it TO MORE EFFECTIVELY INFECT CELLS!

This is the obvious "intent" of the design of the flagellum, it helps the bacteria to survive and thrive in its environment, it is reducible from other less complex elements for how it evolved.

Would you like to provide another answer to what the flagellum is used for? Would you like to provide actual evidence of this alternate "intent"?

Would you like to blame sin or the myth of Adam as an explanation for why bacteria have flagellum?

Do you honestly think that evidence would back up such an assertion?





Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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11-12-2016, 08:56 AM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
what theists believe
[Image: Free-clip-art-grass-clipart-image.png]

what atheists believe
[Image: FPgWYxrIXYrejXsyckhq_1082117778.jpeg]
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11-12-2016, 09:03 AM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
It's a fair question, whether or not the similarities in DNA can be caused by common designs using common types of DNA "instructions" in the code. To a layperson, it sounds perfectly reasonable when Creationists assert this. Indeed, if I was a Designer and I wanted to create a bunch of quadruped vertebrates, I'd use the same basic set of instructions to "unfold" that cellular layout in the creatures, across the board. I get why they ask this. It doesn't fully fit the data, but unless you understand how DNA expression works, it's hard to understand why that is.

That's why I don't talk about the coding sections. I talk about the non-coding sections, the ones which don't "make" part of the animal, and so have nothing to do with the commonality of their designs.

I talk about the genetic markers found in non-coding parts (deleted bits that turn off previously-functional genes, old viral-infection scars, transpositional elements, et cetera) of the genome, which don't make any part of the animal and that are copied, intact, and passed down from generation to generation, until they are found in the "cousin" species. There's no explanation for why they'd be there in "designed from scratch" (by a "Creator") species, but Common Descent explains it simply and perfectly.

If a "Designer" put them there, looking like they do nothing but get copied intact and passed down generation to generation, and places them in visually similar species that aren't in fact cousins (because they were designed separately, rather than evolving from a common ancestral gene pool), then the Designer is a dick who is deliberately fooling everyone. We *know* how these fragments of DNA are passed down, and the fact that they're there at all shows common descent.

We already knew about common descent from numerous other lines of evidence. When rapid DNA testing came out in the mid-80s, it could have thrown all those conclusions out on their heads. Instead, it confirmed by a whole new, independent line of evidence that the previous conclusions were correct.

So we must come to one of two conclusions: either species evolved and diverged from common ancestry, or the Designer is a liar who is deliberately trying to fool us into thinking they did.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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11-12-2016, 11:14 AM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(11-12-2016 08:56 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  what theists believe
what atheists believe

Please elaborate on your strawman. Drinking Beverage

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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11-12-2016, 11:36 AM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(08-12-2016 11:56 AM)Ask21771 Wrote:  I want to believe evolution is real but I'm having two major problems

1. All the genetic evidence (from what I know of it) could be explained by common design

2. All the fossils used for evidence could just be fossils of similar now extinct species

Is there anyway to disprove either of my problems
Biological evolution is a fact. Even many theists accept this. Evolution means a change. The hot issue with some theists are that new species evolove from former species. So what specifically do you feel needs to be disproved? Have you looked at the proofs? See the PBS video "What Darwin Never Knew," on YouTube.
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11-12-2016, 12:06 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(11-12-2016 08:56 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  what atheists believe
[Image: FPgWYxrIXYrejXsyckhq_1082117778.jpeg]

Your fabrication is fallacious.

Take a deck of card laid out in order, face up by suit. Now remove the Jack of Spades, Nine of Clubs, Seven of Hearts, and Five of Diamonds.

Could you tell, by looking at the cards around the gaps, what card should be in the gap? Paleobiologists do the same thing. Your "example" has all the gaps at the same level. Doesn't happen that way.
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11-12-2016, 12:49 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(10-12-2016 09:52 AM)Ask21771 Wrote:  Don't they at least cast some doubt on evolution, if not explain why

I assume that by "living fossil" you mean species like the Coelacanth?

Sharks have been around for about the same time (400 million years, approximately). We just thought the Coelacanth was extinct because we had only seen fossils and no live specimens.

Species evolve in response to multiple stimuli. Changing climate, availability of food, natural selection, sexual selection, genetic mutation (both good and bad) all affect and influence evolution.

Sharks and crocodiles have changed little in the millions of years they have been around. Other species have changed a great deal.

You should really read up on the books and videos. Getting the information from the source is better than asking random people on the internet.

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11-12-2016, 12:51 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
(11-12-2016 08:56 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  what theists believe
what atheists believe

What you know about evolution:

N
No
Not
Noth
Nothi
Nothin
Nothing

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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11-12-2016, 06:10 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
If you have trouble understanding & accepting scientific observations & conclusions, do you also have trouble understanding how reproduction (baby making), happens ?

"When a daddy bird & a momma bird really like each other...."

Or how about viruses & viral DNA ? Do you think you have a good understanding about that ? I don't, but do understand some of the basic concepts.






I personally find it fascinating that a woman's ability to have a child is due to a bit of DNA from a virus.

Without that, placental mammals wouldn't exist as they do today.

What do you think a human being would look like without all that DNA from viruses over the past few million years ?

How would you even go about designing a modern day human without using viral DNA ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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11-12-2016, 07:13 PM
RE: I'm having problems believing in evolution
What about out of order fossils
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