I'm losing my faith
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06-03-2016, 07:28 AM
I'm losing my faith
I'm really messed up right now, growing up from a Christian home and it's expected for you to go to church and follow the doctrine of the Bible. There are some unsolved questions that are making me doubt my faith in the Bible. Firstly, My problem is when was the dinosaur Era in the Bible? Let's be factual there, those dinosaur remains and bones are clear empirical evidence that they rule the earth at sometime. Secondly, the birth of Isis is the same as that of Jesus which cast alot if doubt that it's not a mere coincidence. I need some clarification on this.
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06-03-2016, 07:51 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
Hi Welcome Smile

There is no dinosaur era in the Bible. Some Christians will cite to behemoth as an example of a biblical dinosaur, but that's just grasping at straws. Christians like to believe Jesus was the only one running around during this time with magical powers--when in fact this was quite common during the time period. If Jesus existed at all (which there is some serious debate about) and gained a following it was only because of good marketing and charisma.

Check out Kooks and Quacks of the Roman Empire: A Look into the world of the Gospels by Richard Carrier. It's available online on infidels.org. I also recommend reading Bart Ehrman's The Bible: A Historical and Literary Introduction and How Jesus Became God (also by same author).
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06-03-2016, 07:52 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:28 AM)gameface Wrote:  I'm really messed up right now, growing up from a Christian home and it's expected for you to go to church and follow the doctrine of the Bible. There are some unsolved questions that are making me doubt my faith in the Bible. Firstly, My problem is when was the dinosaur Era in the Bible?

There is no Dinosaur Era in the bible, because clearly the writers of scripture had no idea about events that transpired millions of years ago prior to their time.

Quote:Secondly, the birth of Isis is the same as that of Jesus which cast alot if doubt that it's not a mere coincidence. I need some clarification on this.

Well this was easy to debunk, because there's little to no support that Isis's birthday fell on December 25th. And secondly, the date of Jesus birth is not in scripture, and it's quite likely that Jesus wasn't born in December regardless.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-03-2016, 07:57 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:28 AM)gameface Wrote:  I'm really messed up right now, growing up from a Christian home and it's expected for you to go to church and follow the doctrine of the Bible. There are some unsolved questions that are making me doubt my faith in the Bible. Firstly, My problem is when was the dinosaur Era in the Bible? Let's be factual there, those dinosaur remains and bones are clear empirical evidence that they rule the earth at sometime. Secondly, the birth of Isis is the same as that of Jesus which cast alot if doubt that it's not a mere coincidence. I need some clarification on this.

According to science, the Earth is close to 14 billion years old and dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago. According to those that believe that the bible is factual, the Earth is only about 6,000 years ago. Therefore, either the Earth is > 6,000 years old or science is wrong about the age of dinosaurs. I don't know the bible that well but, offhand, I can't remember the bible ever mentioning dinosaurs. Therefore, I can't tell you when the dinosaur era occurred in the bible.

You either believe the bible or science - but both can't be right, can they?

Isis was a goddess that was worshiped by the ancient Egyptians from 2,494 BC onwards. She was the assistant of the dead Pharaoh and therefore had a funerary role and was wife to Horus.

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06-03-2016, 07:57 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
Also there are way more holes in the Bible than the two points you raise in your post. I also like the Skeptics Annotated Bible--available online and in book form. It also helps to understand the mindset of the culture from which these stories and beliefs came from. I think Ehrman's The Bible introduction is a good one for explaining all of these things. And a good commentary (such as the IVP Bible Commentary) will help explain why and how these stories came to be.
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06-03-2016, 07:59 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:51 AM)jennybee Wrote:  If Jesus existed at all (which there is some serious debate about) and gained a following it was only because of good marketing and charisma.

There is no serious debate among historians as to the question of Jesus's existence, no more than there's no serious debate about whether the earth being 6000 years old among scientist, though creationist have a handful for credentialed individuals.

No one's arguing about the existence of Jesus in peer reviewed historical Journals, that fringe that do argue this, tend to sell it to popular masses who tend to be ignorant of history, and too eager to defeat christianity that they settle for the credulous.

This motivation is readily apparent, when the same folks who argue about 9/11 conspiracy theories, and evil banking conspiracies, included the view that Jesus didn't exist, as part of their trilogies.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-03-2016, 08:05 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
Hi gameface and welcome to TTA.

Yup, I'm with Tomasia on this one.

The points that mythicists make about specific similarities between the Jesus myths and the myths surrounding other deities always seem to be clutching at straws.

However, the wider point about the Jesus myth simply being a first century version of a common theme of a dying and rising god seem to me to be perfectly valid. If you're going to develop a new deity, you gotta go with market preferences in your initial product launch.

I think there is no doubt that Jesus is a myth. Whether that myth is based on an actual human being or not (like King Arthur or Robin Hood) becomes less relevant over time.

I hope that little bit of rambling helps.

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06-03-2016, 08:05 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
Relax, take a deep breath, and find some books that discuss when the bible stories were written and how they were made into a book. There was a fair amount of cross-cultural transfer of stories that people liked so Hebrew mythology was heavily influenced by Egypt, Babylonia, Sumeria, etc. Read about Osiris and Mithras and the Epic of Gilgamesh and you'll find many elements that sound familiar. People have a natural curiosity about how the world works and how it was formed and often prefer an answer that sounds good to no answer.

JB already suggested Ehrman and Carrier; I'll add Richard Friedman and the forum's very own GoodWithoutGod

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06-03-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-03-2016 07:51 AM)jennybee Wrote:  If Jesus existed at all (which there is some serious debate about) and gained a following it was only because of good marketing and charisma.

No one's arguing about the existence of Jesus in peer reviewed historical Journals, that fringe that do argue this, tend to sell it to popular masses who tend to be ignorant of history, and too eager to defeat christianity that they settle for the credulous.

Dr Carrier, Dr Price and Dr Fitzgerald most certainly do content that jesus had an earthly existence. They don't think so.

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06-03-2016, 08:07 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-03-2016 07:51 AM)jennybee Wrote:  If Jesus existed at all (which there is some serious debate about) and gained a following it was only because of good marketing and charisma.

There is no serious debate among historians as to the question of Jesus's existence, no more than there's no serious debate about whether the earth being 6000 years old among scientist, though creationist have a handful for credentialed individuals.

No one's arguing about the existence of Jesus in peer reviewed historical Journals, that fringe that do argue this, tend to sell it to popular masses who tend to be ignorant of history, and too eager to defeat christianity that they settle for the credulous.

This motivation is readily apparent, when the same folks who argue about 9/11 conspiracy theories, and evil banking conspiracies, included the view that Jesus didn't exist, as part of their trilogies.

There are several reputable scholars/historians that make legitimate claims that question the existence of Jesus. And I believe Richard Carrier, for one--has been peer reviewed.

I myself am on the fence as to whether or not he actually existed. Either way, it is a fact that magic and the idea that people had magical powers and/or were born of gods was big during this time period. It was the equivalent of any current fad you see in modern times. Jesus was not unique. Christian scholars--who are actual scholars and not woo peddlers--would also agree on this point.
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