I'm losing my faith
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08-03-2016, 04:12 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 04:10 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 03:53 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  And here are a few things science thought

The earth was flat ( proven wrong by first Muslims and then Jesuit Catholics and then Kepler.)
The earth was the center of the universe
Atoms were like plumb pudding
Gravity was a pulling force.
Energy was scalar
Cold was a type of energy
We can keep going.

A book can always be an allegory, we don't know what the writers were trying to relay. Science is obvious, they wanted to empirically describe the world.

Yes, but scientists never claimed to be an all-knowing deity. As far as not knowing what the writers were trying to relay--that seems kind of silly doesn't it? God is trying desperately to communicate with us via his book and we don't really know what the writers were trying to say and have to speculate on allegory (us mere humans speculating on an all-knowing, all-powerful being's words?
Neither did the Bible lol. Characters of the bible did but the Bible itself didn't.
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08-03-2016, 04:12 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 03:58 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 03:50 PM)jennybee Wrote:  If you don't read or use the Bible--how do you know what you are supposed to be doing re: God? If you can't trust the Bible as you say--that it is no foundation for Christianity--how can you use any of it as any source of foundation for God or otherwise?
I definitely have read parts if and do use all of the Bible. I definitely can trust the Bible for a lot it's just not foundational. As I said before scriptures combined with tradition is what stands. You need both not Just one or the other.

If that's the case, how is the Bible different from any other holy book or tradition then? How is it different from the Vedas for instance? Or the Egyptian Pyramid Texts?
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08-03-2016, 04:14 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 04:12 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 04:10 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Yes, but scientists never claimed to be an all-knowing deity. As far as not knowing what the writers were trying to relay--that seems kind of silly doesn't it? God is trying desperately to communicate with us via his book and we don't really know what the writers were trying to say and have to speculate on allegory (us mere humans speculating on an all-knowing, all-powerful being's words?
Neither did the Bible lol. Characters of the bible did but the Bible itself didn't.

But the characters and stories make up the Bible. The characters and all of it are god-breathed according to Scripture.
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08-03-2016, 04:26 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 03:46 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 03:32 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  But, I think Kazoo is the type that doesn't need a book, he FEELS god and does think for himself, it's just that he thinks what he sees is a result of god. I am not saying this with any sarcasm. I encounter people like this all of the time on Omegle. They don't care about the bible or even religion, they just believe, with zero evidence or documentation or corroboration, that there must be a god. Am I wrong, Zoo?
Very wrong, Christianity didn't become the the most known faith on earth because everyone felt there way to God.

So, you believe in something because so many others believe it? There's an ad pop fallacy in there somewhere.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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08-03-2016, 04:29 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 03:53 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 03:23 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I was just asking because what turned me to my path to atheism was actually reading the entire Bible myself. When you mentioned in your post the Bible does have science in it--I kinda thought you might not have actually read it --the entire thing I mean Wink

Here's a few (of the many) things the Bible has:

A talking donkey.

A version of the Walking Dead where dead saints rise from their graves and walk around the city.

A person being turned into salt.

A world-wide flood that we have zero evidence for.

People living to extraordinarily long ages--500 years, 900 years etc.

Angels flying around with hot coals.

God appearing as a burning bush.

A firmament over the top of the earth.

Creation story at complete odds with scientific findings. (We know we didn't come from dust and a rib).

A talking snake.

These are just a few of the many things you will find in the Bible that are at complete odds with reality.
And here are a few things science thought

The earth was flat ( proven wrong by first Muslims and then Jesuit Catholics and then Kepler.)
The earth was the center of the universe
Atoms were like plumb pudding
Gravity was a pulling force.
Energy was scalar
Cold was a type of energy
We can keep going.

A book can always be an allegory, we don't know what the writers were trying to relay. Science is obvious, they wanted to empirically describe the world.

Oh, I get it now, you seem to get your science from Christian memes on Facebook. Check!

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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08-03-2016, 04:30 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:28 AM)gameface Wrote:  I'm really messed up right now, growing up from a Christian home and it's expected for you to go to church and follow the doctrine of the Bible. There are some unsolved questions that are making me doubt my faith in the Bible. Firstly, My problem is when was the dinosaur Era in the Bible? Let's be factual there, those dinosaur remains and bones are clear empirical evidence that they rule the earth at sometime. Secondly, the birth of Isis is the same as that of Jesus which cast alot if doubt that it's not a mere coincidence. I need some clarification on this.

Well you know when you've seen one God you've seen them all!
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08-03-2016, 04:34 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 04:12 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 03:58 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  I definitely have read parts if and do use all of the Bible. I definitely can trust the Bible for a lot it's just not foundational. As I said before scriptures combined with tradition is what stands. You need both not Just one or the other.

If that's the case, how is the Bible different from any other holy book or tradition then? How is it different from the Vedas for instance? Or the Egyptian Pyramid Texts?
The foundation of Christianity is Jesus, yeshua, a man. The bible are various accounts of revelation. Even the Old Testament is simply the background for the great story of this man yeshua. The bible can't be seen as a book or even a story or even a spiritual guide it's just not. The bible is kind of like a historical archaeological site. There is poetry of the the people of god, there are ancient legal documents of the people of God, there are common folklore of the people of god, there are even history books of the people. So in a phrase the Bible is different because it is not about God but rather about his people.
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08-03-2016, 04:39 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 04:34 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 04:12 PM)jennybee Wrote:  If that's the case, how is the Bible different from any other holy book or tradition then? How is it different from the Vedas for instance? Or the Egyptian Pyramid Texts?
The foundation of Christianity is Jesus, yeshua, a man. The bible are various accounts of revelation. Even the Old Testament is simply the background for the great story of this man yeshua. The bible can't be seen as a book or even a story or even a spiritual guide it's just not. The bible is kind of like a historical archaeological site. There is poetry of the the people of god, there are ancient legal documents of the people of God, there are common folklore of the people of god, there are even history books of the people. So in a phrase the Bible is different because it is not about God but rather about his people.

Other cultures had these things too. And they had their own gods as well. Some of the stories you read in the Bible came from stories from other nearby cultures (stories that are older than the Bible). As did some of the biblical references and holy practices. The Bible isn't as unique as you think it is.
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08-03-2016, 04:41 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
Holy crap... I'm late to this party, but I can't believe this guy posted the "science used to think" (and, as CJLR pointed out, completely wrong about almost all of it) argument. What is WRONG with these fundies?

Why is it so hard for people to understand that it's a Good Thing™ that we correct our knowledge, and believe anything only to the degree to which it has been demonstrated/proved, since science is an ever-self-correcting process by design?

Almost all of the examples cited are places where religious ideas trumped scientific investigation for too long, including the fact that the Greek discovery that the earth was spherical was forgotten for 1500 years due to the religion's dominance of the culture. Thus "science" (which is a method, not a brain or a database) did not think the world was the center-- that was a teaching of the church that we had to be the center of God's creation, which it killed and imprisoned people for trying to use the nascent (newly-born) Scientific Method to disprove via actual observation and testing of hypothetical models.

Educate yourself.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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08-03-2016, 04:41 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 04:10 PM)julep Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 03:43 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  I just finished saying the Bible is not the foundation of the faith. Up until 50 or so ad the New Testament wasn't even written but Christianity existed. Up until about the 5th or 6th century the cannon wasn't even decided but Christianity was becoming a world known faith. And finally up until the 1600s the majority of people didn't have access to the Bible and Christianity was largest collection of beings on earth. The bible has not been and never will be the foundation of Christianity.

If you haven't bothered to read the Bible you should not be making claims about what it says.

Your understanding of even your own church (presuming you are Catholic) is also demonstrably incorrect and incomplete (no doctrinal changes for 2000 years, LMAO). And Christianity has never been the "largest collection of beings on earth," ever.

Again: do a bit of homework before you make your claims if you hope to convince anyone that your points are worthwhile.
http://www.pewforum.org/2014/04/04/globa...diversity/
As of 2014 Christians who typically no matter what denomination associate each other as one brethren make up 31.5% of the world population. Do you know of a larger collection of beings? Did you not my see that I have immersed myself in the Bible nearly every day? I guarantee you that I've heard the entirety of the bible more than once. And have read the majority of it but I'm just being honest in saying I doubt I've actually read it all word for word.
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