I'm losing my faith
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08-03-2016, 04:46 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
Probably 95% of us here have read the entire Bible. I personally have read it in two translations, taken a college course (2 semesters) on its cultural origins and history, and taken the Kay Arthur Precept Upon Precept study course in a third translation (I don't count this as a full read because PUP doesn't actually cover the ENTIRE Bible, as it claims to do).

And what does being the largest collective minority on the planet have to do with anything?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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08-03-2016, 04:56 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 04:46 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Probably 95% of us here have read the entire Bible. I personally have read it in two translations, taken a college course (2 semesters) on its cultural origins and history, and taken the Kay Arthur Precept Upon Precept study course in a third translation (I don't count this as a full read because PUP doesn't actually cover the ENTIRE Bible, as it claims to do).

And what does being the largest collective minority on the planet have to do with anything?

There are also significant factors which caused Christianity to become such a major religion (none of them having to do with magic).

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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08-03-2016, 04:58 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 04:34 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 04:12 PM)jennybee Wrote:  If that's the case, how is the Bible different from any other holy book or tradition then? How is it different from the Vedas for instance? Or the Egyptian Pyramid Texts?
The foundation of Christianity is Jesus, yeshua, a man. The bible are various accounts of revelation. Even the Old Testament is simply the background for the great story of this man yeshua. The bible can't be seen as a book or even a story or even a spiritual guide it's just not. The bible is kind of like a historical archaeological site. There is poetry of the the people of god, there are ancient legal documents of the people of God, there are common folklore of the people of god, there are even history books of the people. So in a phrase the Bible is different because it is not about God but rather about his people.

Also Jesus wasn't just a man he was a demigod.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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08-03-2016, 05:26 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 02:46 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  On a more serious note cjlr I believe science points to a god very well.


Show us the evidence?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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08-03-2016, 05:46 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
Kazoo, you seem to associate Christianity's large numbers to its legitimacy, which is a fallacy in and of itself. But have you ever truly used critical thinking skills as to WHY so many people believe in Christianity?

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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08-03-2016, 05:51 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 04:41 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 04:10 PM)julep Wrote:  If you haven't bothered to read the Bible you should not be making claims about what it says.

Your understanding of even your own church (presuming you are Catholic) is also demonstrably incorrect and incomplete (no doctrinal changes for 2000 years, LMAO). And Christianity has never been the "largest collection of beings on earth," ever.

Again: do a bit of homework before you make your claims if you hope to convince anyone that your points are worthwhile.
http://www.pewforum.org/2014/04/04/globa...diversity/
As of 2014 Christians who typically no matter what denomination associate each other as one brethren make up 31.5% of the world population. Do you know of a larger collection of beings? Did you not my see that I have immersed myself in the Bible nearly every day? I guarantee you that I've heard the entirety of the bible more than once. And have read the majority of it but I'm just being honest in saying I doubt I've actually read it all word for word.
The claim that all of these Christians associate as brethren is bullshit. Every evangelical I grew up with does not consider Catholics Christians, for example, and Christians have a long history, especially your church, of killing people who are the wrong kind of Christians.

And sure I know of a larger collection of human beings: around 50 percent of humans have a gender in common--and about as many commonalities as your billions of Christians.
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08-03-2016, 07:27 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 03:32 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  The Catholic churches have observed the same traditions and doctrinal teachings for 2000 years. The droctines have gone completely unchanged. Those docticnes are the doctrine of Christianity not the Everyman for himself doctrine.

Have you ever heard of Vatican II?
2nd Vatican Council
In 1965, made so many changes that it nearly split the church?

First Vatican Council?
First Vatican Council
You know, where they defined Papal infallibility, the Immaculate Conception, etc.
This was in 1864.

You are 100% wrong. The doctrines of the catholics have changed and evolved repeatedly over the centuries.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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08-03-2016, 07:37 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 03:43 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  The bible has not been and never will be the foundation of Christianity.

On the contrary. Not only was christianity the first religion that practiced exclusivity, (no other gods) but it also created orthodoxy: you had to worship the right god the right way.

The texts were written down because that enabled the teachings to be remembered and passed down. This created as many problems as it solved.

So, while the bible as we know it was not codified for centuries, the various texts of the church have been created and passed down since the beginning.

Unfortunately, they have been poorly copied, poorly translated, accidentally corrupted and deliberately modified for personal, theological and political purposes.

Control of the bible was also integral to the power of the church. The bible tells you how to get to heaven, the bible was not written in the common European languages. Thus the only ones who could read it were the priests.

So if you wanted to go to heaven, you listened to the priests. Besides, you couldn't read it to argue with them. The first people that translated it into english ended up being burned alive by the church for their troubles.

Just one more gentle step in the glorious history of the benign and benevolent church!

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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08-03-2016, 07:45 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 03:53 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  And here are a few things science thought

The earth was flat ( proven wrong by first Muslims and then Jesuit Catholics and then Kepler.)
The earth was the center of the universe
Atoms were like plumb pudding
Gravity was a pulling force.
Energy was scalar
Cold was a type of energy
We can keep going.

A book can always be an allegory, we don't know what the writers were trying to relay. Science is obvious, they wanted to empirically describe the world.

While religious figures have made many contributions to science, they did so using the scientific method and scientific practices. They did not pray over it and they did not find the answers in the bible.

Oh, and the idea of earth being the center of the universe is biblical in origin.
Go figure.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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08-03-2016, 07:48 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(08-03-2016 04:12 PM)Babakazoo Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 04:10 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Yes, but scientists never claimed to be an all-knowing deity. As far as not knowing what the writers were trying to relay--that seems kind of silly doesn't it? God is trying desperately to communicate with us via his book and we don't really know what the writers were trying to say and have to speculate on allegory (us mere humans speculating on an all-knowing, all-powerful being's words?
Neither did the Bible lol. Characters of the bible did but the Bible itself didn't.

Are you joking? Papal infallibility? The omniscient, omnipotent, eternal god?

What christianity are you practicing? catholicism most certainly made and makes the omni- claims.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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