I'm losing my faith
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14-03-2016, 06:37 AM (This post was last modified: 14-03-2016 09:13 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: I'm losing my faith
(14-03-2016 05:09 AM)Opywang Wrote:  
(14-03-2016 04:31 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  If they could actually conceptualize a heaven that was truly universally appealing, they wouldn't have to spend so much more time obsessing over hell and damnation. Their carrot is never 100% effective, they always need that big stick to go with it.
I think the heaven, and damnation are misunderstood.


Of course you do junior. I don't suppose you're going to back up any of your opinions with any substance this time? I didn't think so...



(14-03-2016 05:09 AM)Opywang Wrote:  Three days ago I was met by a preacher, and he told me Hell is real, and I was a little shock by how he preached so I google a little about it, and came up with this.

http://www.godsplanforall.com/jesusdidnotteachhell

This makes better sense.


Apologetic websites aren't evidence, so nobody here gives a flying fuck about anyone's interpretation of the Bible. We can all read the Bible ourselves, most of us have, so we're already more than well enough aware how much of an acid-trip Revelations is. However unlike you, we don't assume it is true and allow that bias to cloud our assessment of it. We also don't just stop with reading the Bible either, as we've studied the archaeological evidence and cultural anthropology and generally have a far great grasp on the origins and context of those stories than most people who believe them to be true.

Jesus didn't teach hell because he most likely never existed, and none of the fictional gospel stories told about him by people who never met him have any grounding in fact or historicity.

But as far as the Bible goes, that Jesus totally preaches the existence of Hell; a concept different from any Jewish predecessors and that has more in common with Zoroastrianism (because that's most likely where they plagiarized it from).



(14-03-2016 05:09 AM)Opywang Wrote:  The reason I ask is cause I can see the other side, and I knew that preacher can't see the other side so I wonder how he know is it because of blind faith, or is it because he's weak minded, and guilable, and believe in anything.


How can you trust your own perceptions? How do you know that you're not the weak minded one? That you're not the one relying on blind faith? That you're not gullible as all hell?


Actually, here's a fun exercise for you. Try to explain the difference between 'faith' and 'gullibility'. Good luck.



(14-03-2016 05:09 AM)Opywang Wrote:  To be honest I believe nobody know the truth like I explain about Towel of babel lol...


The biblical story of the Tower of Babel is complete fiction, it's a nothing more than a story to teach a lesson; a parable. It most certainly is not historically accurate, and we have the evidence to prove it. So yes, we do in fact know the truth; the truth being that the story is a fabrication and not a record of historical events. Also, the Tower of Babel actually exists, it's the Ziggurat of Ur built by King Ur-Nammu in ancient Babylon (Third Dynasty or Ur, approximately 21st century BCE). It's remains still exist, we have pictures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat_of_Ur

[Image: Ancient_ziggurat_at_Ali_Air_Base_Iraq_2005.jpg]


There's your Tower of Babel. If god was so worried about this structure that he split the languages of man, where was he when we started building skyscrapers? Invented powered flight? Went to the fucking moon?

Clearly altitude isn't the a threat to the divine like it once was. Drinking Beverage



(14-03-2016 05:09 AM)Opywang Wrote:  Nobody can see God no matter how hard they search they just can't find him so I question why people think Hell is real even when they can't find God.


Indeed, one has to wonder why people would believe in god or hell, considering neither are demonstrable. Funny thing that. I mean, if you apply the same standards of evidence and skepticism that destroys belief in an actual hell, belief in an actual god should likewise be devastated.

If you believe in god, but dismiss claims about heaven or hell? Then you're not applying your standard of evidence equally, you are making special exceptions for the things that you want to believe in. That a sign of bias, special pleading, and cognitive dissonance. None of which are good things if you want to get to the truth about anything. I means you're not thinking clearly or rationally.



(14-03-2016 05:09 AM)Opywang Wrote:  This is the truth I believe.


Nobody cares what you believe, we're only interested in why you believe what you do; and if your reasons why are nothing more than personal feelings and bullshit anecdotes, nobody cares. We're heard them all before, and none of them are evidence for anything except your own ignorance and credulity. Emotions and feeling prove nothing, and get one as easily to your gods as they do to all others and none at all. They are useless for determining the truth of anything.



(14-03-2016 05:09 AM)Opywang Wrote:  I believe God is real, and he is love, and he want everybody to love one an another, and I do not believe there is one true church, one true way, I believe we're all equal, and we're all loved no matter what even the homosexual, or even the worst sinner are even loved as well.


Without evidence, nobody cares what you believe. It's all just so much empty drivel.

Also we can easily quote the Bible back at you, like any well versed pastor, and clearly show that the Biblical god has a long and sordid list of people whom he hates and condemns to death and suffering. Another reason why the Bible is so useless as a source for 'truth' is that it's so self-contradictory that just about anyone can conform it to their own opinions and simply ignore the parts they don't like or that contradict with them.

Also, 'god is love' is about as vapid a statement as they come. Another fun fact, you merely asserting that 'god is love' doesn't make it true; assertions are not evidence.



(14-03-2016 05:09 AM)Opywang Wrote:  To be honest I've been in hell before here on earth, and it didn't feel good at all in fact I couldn't stand it so I decided to get out of it. The reason I went to hell is cause I was preparing myself to go to Hell. I think Hell is real, but it's not like how most people think it is. I've had vision of hell by one of the spirits I met she showed me vision of a big ass demon eating human alive, and there was a bunch of human on the floor half eaten. So maybe it's real I don't know I do believe hell is real I guess, but I do not think it's easy for us to enter like how most preacher preach.


Funny thing, how come Hindus don't have visions of hell? Hallucinating isn't limited to just followers of the Abrahamic god, but much like with supposed near-death-experiences, people only ever seem to see what their culture already expects them to. Christians suffering from hallucinations and NDE's claim to see long haired and white hippie Jesus, despite the fact that a first century Jewish carpenter in Palestine would look decidedly more middle eastern. Muslims likewise claim to meet Muhammad. While on the other had, Buddhists and Hindu's don't see these things, instead telling stories of experiencing the Buddha or Vishnu or other more culturally relevant experiences. In short, people see and experience what they want or expect to, because their experiences are being crafted by their malfunctioning brains; and their brains can only work with what they already know. This is why Hindu's don't have visions of Jesus and vice versa.

In light of all this, these things that we know and can show to be demonstrably true concerning the frailty and frequent misconception of reality that humans experience, why should I or anyone else take your personal and unverifiable anecdote seriously?

The correct answer is of course that nobody should take it seriously, including yourself.



(14-03-2016 05:09 AM)Opywang Wrote:  Jesus said the tax collector, and the prostitution will enter the heaven first before the self righteous hypocrite so I think it depend where you are at on the plane like for an example. Prostitution can sense thing better than most thats because she's had sex with plenty of guys, and learning about how God work. God is love, and he is all about sharing, and no selfish, or anything. SO the prostitution see God, and the heaven, and learn about the truth better than self righteous hypocrite does. The same with the Tax collectors they go out and meet people, and take there money so they meet a lot of people, and hurting people by jailing them, or forcing them to pay, and they started to become empathy, and started to feel God, and understanding the truth as well.


Please tell me English is not your first language, because that's a rambling cluster-fuck of nonsense.

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14-03-2016, 06:47 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(14-03-2016 03:10 AM)Opywang Wrote:  God told me that ....

Blink

Ok, that didn't even make sense.
[/quote]

Because I saw him when I saw him the angel had to take care of me to make sure I don't offend him.

I won't tell you what he looks like cause I told one person I am not sure if he like that.

Jesus seen God, a few people has seen God. I don't know what I saw, but it's possible I saw God too.

Tell you the truth I've met Elijah! even crazier lol...

Elijah told me that there is many false prophet in this world it's all I can say about Elijah, but I did transfigured like what Jesus did. I'm not Jesus, but I experience the same thing as he did. When I met Elijah I thought I was gonna get rapture, and I look out of the window to see if everybody was getting rapture as well lol.
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14-03-2016, 06:52 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(14-03-2016 06:47 AM)Opywang Wrote:  Tell you the truth I've met Elijah! even crazier lol...

Folks, we got a winner here!

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14-03-2016, 07:06 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(14-03-2016 06:47 AM)Opywang Wrote:  Jesus seen God, a few people has seen God. I don't know what I saw, but it's possible I saw God too.

Tell you the truth I've met Elijah! even crazier lol...

Elijah told me that there is many false prophet in this world it's all I can say about Elijah, but I did transfigured like what Jesus did. I'm not Jesus, but I experience the same thing as he did. When I met Elijah I thought I was gonna get rapture, and I look out of the window to see if everybody was getting rapture as well lol.

Why should I believe you over Elijah?
Why should I believe you over any other person who claims personal experience?
How can you be sure your personal experience is valid?
How can you be sure your personal experience is not mental illness?

Muslims, Hindus, Christians, UFO contactees, all claim through personal experience to have encountered greater beings.
Why should I give more credence to you than to them?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

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14-03-2016, 07:07 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
Opywang, I just wanted to say that I really can appreciate what you're experiencing. But as a little tip, try to stay off the forum after you take the drugs.

I've come to recognize that when I take Ambien, I'm simply no longer clear headed enough to post responsibily. Nothing good ever comes of it, and I'd only embarrass myself with the content (both written and pictoral) of my posts.

Stay off the forum after the drugs!
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14-03-2016, 07:18 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
I know y'all are intelligence bunch, and to be honest the smartest people I know of are atheist.

The only reason I am here is because every christian chat I attend I get banned.

No christian will allow me to even speak on there forum not even a breath lol.

So I don't have any where else to go, but to atheist chat, or Spiritual chat that is more open minded.

Sucks right lol.

Now I am learning thing, and expanding my mind, and started to hang around with underground people. I've met conjurer, I've met all kind of interesting folk since the christian reject me. Now I am learning things I notice the more rejected I am the more I learn about the truth.

It's weird how this path can make you learn even more being reject by the majority.
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14-03-2016, 07:29 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(14-03-2016 07:18 AM)Opywang Wrote:  The only reason I am here is because every christian chat I attend I get banned.

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Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

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14-03-2016, 07:42 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(14-03-2016 07:06 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(14-03-2016 06:47 AM)Opywang Wrote:  Jesus seen God, a few people has seen God. I don't know what I saw, but it's possible I saw God too.

Tell you the truth I've met Elijah! even crazier lol...

Elijah told me that there is many false prophet in this world it's all I can say about Elijah, but I did transfigured like what Jesus did. I'm not Jesus, but I experience the same thing as he did. When I met Elijah I thought I was gonna get rapture, and I look out of the window to see if everybody was getting rapture as well lol.

Why should I believe you over Elijah?
Why should I believe you over any other person who claims personal experience?
How can you be sure your personal experience is valid?
How can you be sure your personal experience is not mental illness?

Muslims, Hindus, Christians, UFO contactees, all claim through personal experience to have encountered greater beings.
Why should I give more credence to you than to them?

You don't lol...
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14-03-2016, 09:42 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(14-03-2016 07:18 AM)Opywang Wrote:  Now I am learning thing, and expanding my mind, and started to hang around with underground people. I've met conjurer, I've met all kind of interesting folk since the christian reject me.


Correction, you've met someone who claims to be a conjurer. If he actually was a conjurer, and was able to somehow demonstrable interact with the supernatural, it would be the most groundbreaking discovery in human history. But I'd bet my life on the fact that he cannot demonstrate anything under observable laboratory conditions that would correct for natural variables and better rule out fraud.



(14-03-2016 07:18 AM)Opywang Wrote:  Now I am learning things I notice the more rejected I am the more I learn about the truth.


Being rejected by a group of people has zero correlation to any truth claims.

Either you have evidence to back up your beliefs, which elevates them to facts and knowledge, or you do not. Beliefs without evidence are not knowledge, they're called faith.

Faith is belief without knowledge, a belief held that either lacks supporting evidence or for which evidence directly contradicts it. So far everything you've claimed to believe in, unless you can provide evidence to support it, is a faith based claim; which means nobody here will take you seriously.



(14-03-2016 07:18 AM)Opywang Wrote:  It's weird how this path can make you learn even more being reject by the majority.


Once again, social rejection and stigmatization does not correlate to gaining knowledge or learning. Martin Luther wasn't more correct in interpreting the Bible simply because he disagreed with the Roman Catholic Church. Indeed Catholics and Protestants have been arguing (and fighting, and killing, and warring, and genociding, etc.) each other for centuries over doctrinal disputes that they are unable to resolve, because there is nothing to resolve; ther is no there there. In five centuries, they haven't managed to hone in on the correct answer; instead the opposite has occurred as the religion has further split into more and more denominations. Neither side has tested to see whether or not the Eucharist actually magically transforms into the flesh and blood of a 1st century dead Jewish carpenter and used that to settle their debate; and they're never going to, because you can't get any closer to something that doesn't exist.


So again, why should anyone here take anything you say seriously?


Just remember that claims made without evidence (like 'god is love'), can be dismissed without evidence.

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14-03-2016, 05:52 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(14-03-2016 07:07 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Opywang, I just wanted to say that I really can appreciate what you're experiencing. But as a little tip, try to stay off the forum after you take the drugs.

I've come to recognize that when I take Ambien, I'm simply no longer clear headed enough to post responsibily. Nothing good ever comes of it, and I'd only embarrass myself with the content (both written and pictoral) of my posts.

Stay off the forum after the drugs!

I will tell you the truth you don't have to use drugs to get high. Spirits can get you high!

I'm empathy I can sense people if there high, or not, and I met a guy, and I thought he was doing drugs, and I assume he was cause I can feel it off from people then one day some how it made me high just as he is. It felt like I did an 8 ball of coke, and it lasted forever it doesn't end. I doubt the spirits then it left, and it kept knocking on my door for an invite, and I invite it back in, and it gave me that same high again then it left the next day cause I wasn't sure what I was dealing with lol.

It's amazing and surprise me wow... I remember I got really paranoid I thought everybody was coming after me cause that how high it got me lol.

I've met an another spirits it gave me a heroin type of high, and I met other it has different kind of high. I notice most spirits have high that is never heard of on Earth, and most of them can give you a high, and there all different, and random.
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