I'm losing my faith
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06-03-2016, 08:15 AM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2016 08:19 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 08:06 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  
(06-03-2016 07:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No one's arguing about the existence of Jesus in peer reviewed historical Journals, that fringe that do argue this, tend to sell it to popular masses who tend to be ignorant of history, and too eager to defeat christianity that they settle for the credulous.

Dr Carrier, Dr Price and Dr Fitzgerald most certainly do content that jesus had an earthly existence. They don't think so.

So do creationist like Dr. Allan, James, Dr. Austin, Richard, and if you can throw David Fitzgerald (he has no PHD in anything by the way) in the mix, then I guess we can throw in Ken Ham. As far as credentialed individuals, the list of creationists far outshines those of Ahistoricist:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lists_of_cr...scientists

This doesn't mean they're not a fringe view, nor do these individuals suggests there's a serious debate among the historical or scientific community about a young earth, or non-existent Jesus.

(06-03-2016 08:06 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  If you believe that jesus existed, then you are an idiot

I know atheists historians like Bart Ehrman is an idiot in your view right? While Carrier and Price must be geniuses? Get off the meth dude.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-03-2016, 08:24 AM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2016 08:31 AM by DLJ.)
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-03-2016 07:51 AM)jennybee Wrote:  If Jesus existed at all (which there is some serious debate about) and gained a following it was only because of good marketing and charisma.

There is no serious debate among historians as to the question of Jesus's existence,

This is untrue. There is no evidence of the existence of Jesus.

The authors of the NT were all at odds with Jesus" birth and death dates. Hardly inspiring of confidence.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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06-03-2016, 08:25 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
I would agree that the similar myths re: Jesus and other godlike beings at the time was not really enough to make me question his existence. But the points Carrier raises in his books and here for example, do make me question whether or not Jesus was an actual person and not just a made up entity or a mascot of sorts.



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06-03-2016, 08:28 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 08:15 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-03-2016 08:06 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  Dr Carrier, Dr Price and Dr Fitzgerald most certainly do content that jesus had an earthly existence. They don't think so.

So do creationist like Dr. Allan, James, Dr. Austin, Richard, and if you can throw David Fitzgerald (he has no PHD in anything by the way) in the mix, then I guess we can throw in Ken Ham. As far as credentialed individuals, the list of creationists far outshines those of Ahistoricist:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lists_of_cr...scientists

This doesn't mean they're not a fringe view, nor do these individuals suggests there's a serious debate among the historical or scientific community about a young earth, or non-existent Jesus.

(06-03-2016 08:06 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  If you believe that jesus existed, then you are an idiot

I know atheists historians like Bart Ehrman is an idiot in your view right? While Carrier and Price must be geniuses? Get off the meth dude.

My apologies, Fitzgerald does not have a PhD. It was a typo.

No serious scientist believes in this creation nonsense. What are you on fuckwad?

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06-03-2016, 08:28 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 08:25 AM)jennybee Wrote:  ... a mascot of sorts.

Laugh out loadLaugh out load

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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06-03-2016, 08:30 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:28 AM)gameface Wrote:  I'm really messed up right now,
...

To gameface,

This thread is about to deteriorate into a "historicity of Jesus" discussion.

As Moderator, I can move this thread into the Personal Issues and Support sub-forum (a kinda safe zone) where we can focus on your well-being without the heat.

But I would prefer to let this one run as a discussion and suggest that if you are seeking support and guidance regarding your loss of faith (and welcome to the club, btw) please feel free to start a new thread in that Personal Issues and Support sub-forum.

Cheers
DLJ

"we are here to serve"


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06-03-2016, 08:34 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
I am happy 'to play nicely'. You are right, DLJ, there is no need for this thread to deteriorate in this manner.

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06-03-2016, 08:36 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 08:07 AM)jennybee Wrote:  There are several reputable scholars/historians that make legitimate claims that question the existence of Jesus. And I believe Richard Carrier, for one--has been peer reviewed.

There are several reputable scientist who are creationist, some of which even subscribe to a young earth, far more so than historians who subscribe to a mythicist or mythicist position. And the bulk of the mythicist position is made by non-scholars and historians, like Archaraya X, Earl Doherty, David Fitzgerald, Brian Fleming, etc...

While you can believe Richard Carrier has written an article arguing for the mythicist view in peer reviewed historical journal, that's more your imagination than a reality. More revealing of what you desire to believe, than what is true.

By the logic used by individuals such as yourself to claim that there's a serious argument among historians as to whether or not there was a historical Jesus, would be just as supportive of the claim that there's a serious argument among scientists as to whether or not the earth is six thousands years old.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-03-2016, 08:38 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 08:28 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  
(06-03-2016 08:15 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So do creationist like Dr. Allan, James, Dr. Austin, Richard, and if you can throw David Fitzgerald (he has no PHD in anything by the way) in the mix, then I guess we can throw in Ken Ham. As far as credentialed individuals, the list of creationists far outshines those of Ahistoricist:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lists_of_cr...scientists

This doesn't mean they're not a fringe view, nor do these individuals suggests there's a serious debate among the historical or scientific community about a young earth, or non-existent Jesus.


I know atheists historians like Bart Ehrman is an idiot in your view right? While Carrier and Price must be geniuses? Get off the meth dude.

My apologies, Fitzgerald does not have a PhD. It was a typo.

No serious scientist believes in this creation nonsense. What are you on fuckwad?

Check out the link, that list numerous individuals with solid credentials who subscribe to creationism As far as credentials are concerned creationist have Ahistoricist beat.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-03-2016, 08:41 AM
RE: I'm losing my faith
Given the effect that "Jesus" has had and continues to have on history and humanity, I see little point in debating whether he was an actual person. The last two thousand years happened, and they continue to shape the world we live in; skeptics should concede the fact and get on with more important matters.

As to dinosaurs and all the rest, Google Carl Sagan's "Cosmic Calendar." It's available in poster form from online stores, or you can just review the different versions online that people have come up with. It will give you a good visual representation of the differences between the Biblical and scientific timelines.
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