I'm losing my faith
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06-03-2016, 10:38 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:28 AM)gameface Wrote:  I'm really messed up right now, growing up from a Christian home and it's expected for you to go to church and follow the doctrine of the Bible. There are some unsolved questions that are making me doubt my faith in the Bible. Firstly, My problem is when was the dinosaur Era in the Bible? Let's be factual there, those dinosaur remains and bones are clear empirical evidence that they rule the earth at sometime. Secondly, the birth of Isis is the same as that of Jesus which cast alot if doubt that it's not a mere coincidence. I need some clarification on this.
Do you expect the bible to be a science book?

Whoever wrote the bible didn't know about dinosaurs, didn't know about evolution, the fables in Genesis are myth-stories, neat little imaginative stories to explain why somethings are the way they are. Many cultures have developed these imaginative stories.
Did you know why the saddle back bird has an orange mark on its back?
http://www.nzbirds.com/birds/tieke.html
Quote:According to Maori tradition the saddle marking was caused by the man–god Maui, Maui–potiki. This happened shortly after he and his brothers had snared the sun as it emerged from its cave. Maui beat the sun so mercilessly as it lay imprisoned close to the ground that it was greatly enfeebled. When the sun could take no more and pleaded for mercy, Maui released it, its energy all gone, so that it was able only slowly and wearily to make its way across the sky. Thus to this day we have longer daylight hours.

The heat of the sun and his exertions made Maui very thirsty so he asked Tieke, the saddleback to bring him some cold water but the bird pretended not to hear and took no notice. This irritated Maui so much that he seized it and in doing so singed its feathers with the heat of his hand. The markings on his back are a permanent reminded of how it incurred his displeasure.
- See more at: http://www.nzbirds.com/birds/tieke.html#...aSbJ1.dpuf

There are many myth-stories for most things. Ultimately they all have no basis, just dreamed up imaginative stories that entertained rather than informed.

Your bible is no different. The authors did not bring any new scientific information forward. Perhaps the bible is only a basis for you to consider morality. To form your own interpretation on what is right and what is wrong. Perhaps thinking about Good people going to heaven encourages you to be good. Perhaps imagining a perfect loving being gives you a "role model" to aspire yourself to be.

Of course the god of the OT is a horrid demon, massacring and torturing people that don't obey, killing their offspring etc. But I guess it is a starting point for some people, they can decide not to take those particular stories literally, they can choose to instead think god is loving and perfect, perhaps they think that god compensated those 42 children mauled by the she-bears buy rewarding them in heaven? You can imagine whatever you like to make yourself happy and believe in your perfect and loving god.

Or perhaps you could become an atheist and still seek to find out how to become a good and loving person, seek many sources of ideas (including the bible and Jesus if you like).

I don't believe in god, I don't believe the bible is privvy to any truths, I don't believe it is profound or particularly well written. I don't care if you believe in god or don't believe in god. I don't judge you. I don't imagine that you are deserving of heaven or hell.

But all I can suggest, is that you don't look to the bible for scientific knowledge. The bible fails miserably on that account. I don't think that is it's purpose.
Evolution is undeniable, the bible account of creatures being created fully formed for a purpose is ridiculous. Many Christians believe in evolution, you don't have to consider the bible to be a scientifically accurate account of the history of the Earth in order to be a Christian.

The only claims that many of the large religions can stand behind are those that are unverifiable i.e. accounts of life after death, accounts of good vs evil, account of who created existence. You simply get to choose to believe them, you don't get to ask for evidence.

It's not what I call a good method of discovery of truth but then again the Christians spell Truth with a capital "T".
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06-03-2016, 10:56 PM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2016 11:00 PM by Aliza.)
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:28 AM)gameface Wrote:  I'm really messed up right now, growing up from a Christian home and it's expected for you to go to church and follow the doctrine of the Bible. There are some unsolved questions that are making me doubt my faith in the Bible. Firstly, My problem is when was the dinosaur Era in the Bible? Let's be factual there, those dinosaur remains and bones are clear empirical evidence that they rule the earth at sometime. Secondly, the birth of Isis is the same as that of Jesus which cast alot if doubt that it's not a mere coincidence. I need some clarification on this.

Hi Gameface!

The dinosaurs lived before Adam and Eve. It was my people (the Jews) who wrote the bible, and without getting into a long discussion about it, the time prior to Adam and Eve are not mentioned in any detail at all in the bible. But because the Talmud discusses 974 generations of man that lived before Adam and Eve, we Jews can conclude that the "days" discussed in Genesis are not six, 24 hour periods of time as the Christians understand them to be.

... Oh, and while we're at it, nowhere in the bible does it say that a belief in G-d is required to live a happy life or to have "salvation" in any way. (Though I can't speak for what the NT says.)
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06-03-2016, 10:59 PM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2016 11:42 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:52 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-03-2016 07:28 AM)gameface Wrote:  I'm really messed up right now, growing up from a Christian home and it's expected for you to go to church and follow the doctrine of the Bible. There are some unsolved questions that are making me doubt my faith in the Bible. Firstly, My problem is when was the dinosaur Era in the Bible?

There is no Dinosaur Era in the bible, because clearly the writers of scripture had no idea about events that transpired millions of years ago prior to their time.

Quote:Secondly, the birth of Isis is the same as that of Jesus which cast alot if doubt that it's not a mere coincidence. I need some clarification on this.

Well this was easy to debunk, because there's little to no support that Isis's birthday fell on December 25th. And secondly, the date of Jesus birth is not in scripture, and it's quite likely that Jesus wasn't born in December regardless.

Jesus was likely born umm. Never. They made him up. Totally.
Read Dr. Richard Elliott Friedmann's "Who wrote the Bible". Once you get why the texts were assembled, you can never take it as serious history.
See any of Richard Carrier's YouTubes.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ble-Bull-s
There is *some* wisdom in the ancient Hebrew texts, but that's a long story. Whatever it may be, it's certainly not history, in any way.

Aliza is 110 % correct about "salvation" however. It was simply never a part of Hebrew culture. Christianity cooked that up when the 'end times' did not arrive as expected.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-03-2016, 11:05 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 10:56 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(06-03-2016 07:28 AM)gameface Wrote:  I'm really messed up right now, growing up from a Christian home and it's expected for you to go to church and follow the doctrine of the Bible. There are some unsolved questions that are making me doubt my faith in the Bible. Firstly, My problem is when was the dinosaur Era in the Bible? Let's be factual there, those dinosaur remains and bones are clear empirical evidence that they rule the earth at sometime. Secondly, the birth of Isis is the same as that of Jesus which cast alot if doubt that it's not a mere coincidence. I need some clarification on this.

The dinosaurs lived before Adam and Eve. It was my people (the Jews) who wrote the bible, and without getting into a long discussion about it, the time prior to Adam and Eve are not mentioned in any detail at all in the bible. But because the Talmud discusses 974 generations of man that lived before Adam and Eve, we Jews can conclude that the "days" discussed in Genesis are not six, 24 hour periods of time as the Christians understand them to be.

My good friend goodwithoutgod would disagree:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...g-is-a-day

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
----
Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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06-03-2016, 11:30 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 10:56 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(06-03-2016 07:28 AM)gameface Wrote:  I'm really messed up right now, growing up from a Christian home and it's expected for you to go to church and follow the doctrine of the Bible. There are some unsolved questions that are making me doubt my faith in the Bible. Firstly, My problem is when was the dinosaur Era in the Bible? Let's be factual there, those dinosaur remains and bones are clear empirical evidence that they rule the earth at sometime. Secondly, the birth of Isis is the same as that of Jesus which cast alot if doubt that it's not a mere coincidence. I need some clarification on this.

Hi Gameface!

The dinosaurs lived before Adam and Eve. It was my people (the Jews) who wrote the bible, and without getting into a long discussion about it, the time prior to Adam and Eve are not mentioned in any detail at all in the bible. But because the Talmud discusses 974 generations of man that lived before Adam and Eve, we Jews can conclude that the "days" discussed in Genesis are not six, 24 hour periods of time as the Christians understand them to be.

... Oh, and while we're at it, nowhere in the bible does it say that a belief in G-d is required to live a happy life or to have "salvation" in any way. (Though I can't speak for what the NT says.)


All one need to do OP is check the history of the earth. For Zeus' sake, it's on wikipedia.
Just read this.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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07-03-2016, 03:44 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2016 04:09 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:28 AM)gameface Wrote:  I'm really messed up right now, growing up from a Christian home and it's expected for you to go to church and follow the doctrine of the Bible. There are some unsolved questions that are making me doubt my faith in the Bible. Firstly, My problem is when was the dinosaur Era in the Bible? Let's be factual there, those dinosaur remains and bones are clear empirical evidence that they rule the earth at sometime. Secondly, the birth of Isis is the same as that of Jesus which cast alot if doubt that it's not a mere coincidence. I need some clarification on this.

The book of Genesis is a syncretic story that borrows heavily from Babylonian myth.

What's the point of worrying about the Jesus mythology when the Yhwh mythology is clearly contrived? Jesus' myth is based off of another, earlier Hebrew myth and Hebrew myth is based off of an earlier Babylonian myth, Babylonian myth is derived from Akkadian and Sumerian myth.

The history of religion is a story of culture and civilization evolving over time and the thread of this evolution runs through the Mesopotamia region.

Here's a fun bit of research you can do- look up Genesis 10:10-12, the city building lists of Asshur and Nimrod, look up all of those cities to find out what their dates of construction were. Compare this to when the Tower of Babel was built (2200 B.C.), then ask yourself this - is this story true? What about these other stories in Genesis, are they true or myth?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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07-03-2016, 04:35 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:28 AM)gameface Wrote:  I'm really messed up right now, growing up from a Christian home and it's expected for you to go to church and follow the doctrine of the Bible. There are some unsolved questions that are making me doubt my faith in the Bible. Firstly, My problem is when was the dinosaur Era in the Bible? Let's be factual there, those dinosaur remains and bones are clear empirical evidence that they rule the earth at sometime. Secondly, the birth of Isis is the same as that of Jesus which cast alot if doubt that it's not a mere coincidence. I need some clarification on this.


I would, like others, also state not to focus on the "faith loss" but rather focus on coming into new information that will shape your beliefs. The great thing about information is that it is so easily accessible. The horrible thing about information is that....well, it's so easily accessible. How do you parse out the good info from the not so good? It take some critical thinking development to be able to look at assertions and come away with a value assessment. A good goal is to believe as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible.

If you make your doubts known to other believers they will most likely steer you into apologetic books that, without a basis in critical thinking / logical fallacies and the correct way to ask questions, will seemingly be appropriate in response. The point is to dig deeper past the apologetics. There are tons of places to start, books, podcasts, forums (like this one), web sites etc.

I would suggest the following:

If you have access to podcasts -
Reasonable Doubts
The Thinking Atheist
Unbelievable
The Atheist Experience
Dogma Debate

Websites: (google these)
Talk Origins
Iron Chariots wiki
Infidels.org
christianitydisproved.com
yourlogicalfallacyis.com

And most of all......(drum roll please) the bible!!!
If you haven't read the book through without your god goggles on, you owe it to yourself to do so.

**Crickets** -- God
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07-03-2016, 04:38 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith



There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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07-03-2016, 04:51 PM
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 07:28 AM)gameface Wrote:  I'm really messed up right now, growing up from a Christian home and it's expected for you to go to church and follow the doctrine of the Bible. There are some unsolved questions that are making me doubt my faith in the Bible. Firstly, My problem is when was the dinosaur Era in the Bible? Let's be factual there, those dinosaur remains and bones are clear empirical evidence that they rule the earth at sometime. Secondly, the birth of Isis is the same as that of Jesus which cast alot if doubt that it's not a mere coincidence. I need some clarification on this.

Alright gameface before you buy into the fallacious views on the Bible both from Christians and non Christians you need to step back and learn the faith for yourself. This forum is going to have extreme biases from both ends. The very first thing you need to look at is how accurate is the Bible and how should it be used. For starters the Bible is a collection of books and letters that may have been inspired by God but are written by humans. Then to further muddy the waters has been translated by humans. The church teaches that the only inspired texts were the originals themselves. No translation is as true as many see it. While they are very accurate and carefully translated from multiple manuscripts and cross referenced with text not within the Bible understand that the Bible you read today is not from God. Secondly the Bible was Inspired and written as a way for God to reveal himself to us in a way we understand. It is not a factual, historical, scientific collection of writings. It does have facts, history, and amazingly even science in it but, it was not written for that so it will not reveal everything about everything. If you want more help discerning truth pm me or reply here. I won't try to push the faith on you or push you away from the faith I will simply lay out facts for you to interpret.
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07-03-2016, 05:35 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2016 05:53 PM by Rik.)
RE: I'm losing my faith
(06-03-2016 08:36 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-03-2016 08:07 AM)jennybee Wrote:  There are several reputable scholars/historians that make legitimate claims that question the existence of Jesus. And I believe Richard Carrier, for one--has been peer reviewed.

There are several reputable scientist who are creationist, some of which even subscribe to a young earth, far more so than historians who subscribe to a mythicist or mythicist position. And the bulk of the mythicist position is made by non-scholars and historians, like Archaraya X, Earl Doherty, David Fitzgerald, Brian Fleming, etc...

While you can believe Richard Carrier has written an article arguing for the mythicist view in peer reviewed historical journal, that's more your imagination than a reality. More revealing of what you desire to believe, than what is true.

By the logic used by individuals such as yourself to claim that there's a serious argument among historians as to whether or not there was a historical Jesus, would be just as supportive of the claim that there's a serious argument among scientists as to whether or not the earth is six thousands years old.

"There are several reputable scientist who are creationist,"

There are absolutely no reputable scientists who are creationists.

And YECS are simply considered ridiculous by reputable scientists.
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