I'm losing my un-faith!
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20-10-2015, 11:44 PM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
(20-10-2015 11:41 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Kent Hovind must be the single worst fraud to ever use the word "science". I've met him, back in college, and helped a professor in my biology department combat his dishonest tactics directly. He has a lot of competition for the title, but seriously, if you can find someone who has lied more in the promotion of their ideologies, I'd like to read about them. He has about as much knowledge of the findings of the biological community as my nine-year-old (arguably less, since I am a former biologist and my fiancee, his mother, still is one).
Ray comfort, Ken Ham Drinking Beverage

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It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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21-10-2015, 12:22 AM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
(20-10-2015 11:41 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Kent Hovind must be the single worst fraud to ever use the word "science". I've met him, back in college, and helped a professor in my biology department combat his dishonest tactics directly. He has a lot of competition for the title, but seriously, if you can find someone who has lied more in the promotion of their ideologies, I'd like to read about them. He has about as much knowledge of the findings of the biological community as my nine-year-old (arguably less, since I am a former biologist and my fiancee, his mother, still is one).

It's amazing how many people still think he's the shit though. Back when I was in undergrad physics I can't tell you how many of my fundie friends told me about his "theories", IIRC, like how the Earth was surrounded by a big-ol sphere of ice and the ice melted and that was what caused the great flood Hobo He's a prime example of making the facts fit the theory and not the theory fit the facts - from what I could tell by listening to their ravings - I never bothered with him myself.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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21-10-2015, 12:37 AM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
No offense, but your "I'm losing my unfaith" OP was like a mini autobiography with a few sentences at the end that said "oh yeah, and I watched some youtube videos that had some stuff by these guys and I think I believe them!"

Sorry about your dad, but you've got to let us know what arguments are actually convincing you if you want us to even understand what is going on here.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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21-10-2015, 04:08 AM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
(21-10-2015 12:37 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  No offense, but your "I'm losing my unfaith" OP was like a mini autobiography with a few sentences at the end that said "oh yeah, and I watched some youtube videos that had some stuff by these guys and I think I believe them!"

Sorry about your dad, but you've got to let us know what arguments are actually convincing you if you want us to even understand what is going on here.

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21-10-2015, 04:22 AM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
I think you are mistaken in what's happening.

I don't think that you are in anyway being convinced by the arguments. You say as much in your OP. What's happening is that you are increasingly finding yourself wanting to believe. And this is understandable. You're living closer to your mum now that you dad has died. There's probably a sense of loss there about not being able to bond with him more closely when he was still alive and are thinking about this in terms of how you relate to your mum. You are being brought into her social circle and as you say the church members are love bombing you. Even if you know what's happening, it is still effective.

This stuff works for a reason. We're not rational agents, we're humans with instincts and social needs. So don't be harsh on yourself. Just beware though that even if you do try and be a Christian or a Witness, you will be substituting one struggle for another. You won't ever truly believe if you have ever looked into the arguments critically and actually tried to determine the truth. This is why theists talk about faith. It's a way of believing without questioning, to avoid the cognitive dissonance. The problem for you though is that you have already critically looked at the entire subject and can't forget that. It will always be in the back of your mind that you know that it is all seductive bollocks. It's one thing to be seduced, it's quite another to devote your entire life to something.

The advantage though is seduction only lasts a short while before the novelty wears off. So you may find yourself focusing on other areas of your life and eventually thinking back to this time in your life wondering why you ever wanted to believe.
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21-10-2015, 06:28 PM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
You're all right and just listening to you all is like having a nice cuppa and putting my feet up - it's relaxing and you all know what I mean.

To answer a few questions, no my husband isn't a JW, he was raised catholic but he doesn't give a hoot either way now.
I started going to the Kingdom Hall after my dad died and I have to admit I wish I'd gone a few times before he died because I know that would have made him happy. But that's it, I don't like going because it makes me uncomfortable and I wonder if that uncomfortability is from thinking I am starting to believe or if it's just coz I want to stand up and call them all idiots.

I do like the sense of community they have there but I guess you'd find that in any church. That's where the love bombing comes in.
I don't have many friends in real life, just my husband kids and mum. I liked having the people to talk to.
And I'm interested in religion and the bible, even if I don't believe and it's nice to have someone to talk to about that stuff.

The hardest thing I've been through since my dad died is that 6 weeks ago my appendix burst and I had to have emergency surgery with 3 blood transfusions.
I was worried about what my mum would say about that but it turned out she wasn't worried. She said as I'm not a baptized JW I shouldn't have to worry about it either. But I did. It has played on my mind a lot these last few weeks and I told her that even if I was a JW I still would have had the blood transfusions coz I didn't want to die.
The only good thing to come out of that is that I gave up smoking after 25 years! Big Grin

I know what Kent and Ray say are shit and untrue but they do sound convincing sometimes.
Kent is a bit of a slick talker but he tends to repeat himself. Like he keeps saying we think we came from a rock.
Ray repeats himself too with the commandments test he gives everyone and OYG, saying Jesus 'paid our fine' so now we a re legally free to go, drives me mental!!
I can't stop watching them though. It's so disgusting it's fascinating.

I'm a happy little vegemite. Hobo
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21-10-2015, 06:38 PM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
The only religious people I ever listen to are in debates and even that short exposure makes me want to shoot my computer. They are just slick talkers. I think you'll get over it with time. If you are looking for community and someone to talk to this forum is a great place.

A man should not believe in an ism, he should believe in himself. -Ferris Bueller

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21-10-2015, 06:44 PM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
You have been through a lot. I am so glad you are doing well now.

There are a few members in here (myself included) who do still read and study the Bible as an atheist. I wouldn't mind starting an Atheist Bible study thread. Obviously, there would be no woo--instead, we could look at it from a literary/historical/cultural/scholarly point of view. So if you and others are interested, maybe we could start something like that up.

What is it that you are finding convincing about Kent or Ray? None of their statements are scientifically accurate. Is it just the commandments test? If you listen carefully, he never let's anyone get a word in edge-wise. He also twists their words and edits his videos to make it look like he got the upper hand. If you want to see him put on the spot--there's a good debate between atheists and Ray/Kirk on you tube. If you haven't seen it already, I'll see if I can find it for you.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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22-10-2015, 08:16 AM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
This is the crap that drives me crazy. If you had been baptized into the JWs you would have died from the burst appendix if you had held to the JW dogma. Now, I would think your mom would prefer to have a live atheist daughter than than a dead JW daughter. If you were baptized and went atheist again, you would be disfellowshiped. Your mom have to report your apostasy to the elders and she and all those love bombing JWs would be forbidden from talking to you. I don't know about you Annete, but that doesn't sound one bit appealing to me.
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22-10-2015, 08:25 AM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
(22-10-2015 08:16 AM)Iñigo Wrote:  This is the crap that drives me crazy. If you had been baptized into the JWs you would have died from the burst appendix if you had held to the JW dogma. Now, I would think your mom would prefer to have a live atheist daughter than than a dead JW daughter. If you were baptized and went atheist again, you would be disfellowshiped. Your mom have to report your apostasy to the elders and she and all those love bombing JWs would be forbidden from talking to you. I don't know about you Annete, but that doesn't sound one bit appealing to me.

If you think that sounds extreme... I know of at least one forum member that that has happened to. Not sure if all congregations would do it, but certainly some do - it's a good tool to enforce compliance. Threat of withdrawal of the love.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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