I'm losing my un-faith!
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22-10-2015, 08:27 AM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
Also, please ask your Mama if *she* would accept a blood transfusion herself? That shit's scary.

It's some really frikken obscure verse that they base their refusal on anyway, if I recall correctly.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-10-2015, 10:58 AM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
Do you want to believe? Why? To gain acceptance and make others happy?

Divorce your desire to please and your emotions from your rationality. Is the proposition on offer rational? Do you find it intellectually convincing? Your post indicated that you don't. You are being pressured emotionally and psychologically. Ray is a good speaker. He knows how to push those buttons. But his propositions are irrational and weak.

Watch the videos and don't be afraid to stop them. Take time with what he says. Don't let him use his fast pressure point techniques.

You want to make your family happy. You want to feel accepted. These are powerful urges. Step back a sec. Do you want that acceptance of it requires that you abandon your rationality? If it requires cognitive dissonance? If it requires you LIE to yourself?

Do a cost benefit analysis. What is most important to you? Social acceptance? Or your own internal integrity? I can't answer that for you. I'm a loner and an introvert. You might not be. Each person has different needs, and if your need for social acceptance is more important to you, I can't fault that.

You are a person. You have your needs. You have to do your best to fulfill your needs and they are not the needs of someone else. Do not let our decisions make up your mind. We are not you. You need to decide for yourself.
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25-10-2015, 05:30 PM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
(22-10-2015 08:27 AM)morondog Wrote:  Also, please ask your Mama if *she* would accept a blood transfusion herself? That shit's scary.

It's some really frikken obscure verse that they base their refusal on anyway, if I recall correctly.

My mum did have a blood transfusion many years ago before she was a JW but she says she wouldn't have one now. She carries a 'no blood' card in her purse. Hypocritical, I know.

(23-10-2015 10:58 AM)natachan Wrote:  Do you want to believe? Why? To gain acceptance and make others happy?


You want to make your family happy. You want to feel accepted. These are powerful urges. Step back a sec. Do you want that acceptance of it requires that you abandon your rationality? If it requires cognitive dissonance? If it requires you LIE to yourself?


I guess it really boils down to I want to believe because I feel lonely.
I'm happy with my husband and kids but the kids are older now and don't need me and my hubby does his own thing.
I have no other friends and I'm not involved with the community and I'm not really the kind of person who wants to be involved with the community but when I see my mum surrounded by her friends from her congregation I suppose I feel a bit jealous and feel like I'd like a bit of that.
No amount of searching is going to make me believe in god, I know that but I want the feeling my mum and others with faith get from knowing god.
I don't even have an online community anymore since the last site I was on went belly up and everyone went their separate ways.
I'm hoping to find a home here with like-minded people. Smile

I'm a happy little vegemite. Hobo
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25-10-2015, 06:58 PM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
Sounds like you are trying to come to grips with your social life (or lack thereof) rather than wanting to believe.

Would you feel that you needed faith if you had a social group you felt you belonged to? Have you looked for atheist groups in your area?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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25-10-2015, 07:51 PM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
(20-10-2015 10:00 PM)Annette Wrote:  Okay, so I know Kent is wrong and I'm sure Ray is wrong too but my un-faith is shaken and that's what's wrong with me. Please help!

I don't even know what the fuck that means. "My unfaith is shaken."




There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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26-10-2015, 12:06 PM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
that sense of belonging, of community is very strong. It is a huge lever to get people to join who are really on the margins. Is there an alternative available to you? Volunteering, other secular group activity?
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27-10-2015, 10:14 AM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
If you like watching YouTube videos, here are some channels that I would suggest that will help you tackle some of these issues (I can't link from work):

QualiaSoup (old channel, no new videos, but still some good ones)
philhellenes (old channel, no new videos, but still some good ones)
ArguingFromIgnorance (most recent video was about Kent Hovint, haven't watched it yet)
Steve Shives (does a few different series, one of which is a series where he reads and comments on Christian books. It's pretty good, but it can be heavy.)
TMM (TheMessianicManic - does commentary on debate segments between Christians and Atheists)
TheThinkingAtheist (of course- Seth does podcasts and production videos where he discusses issues related to religion and atheism as well as other social issues)
DarkMatter (does cartoon animations that discuss the Bible and various issues relating to religion)
Bob Smeerfak (does animations about segments of the Bible, presented as a sort of cliffs notes)

That's just a few that I watch pretty regularly or have in the past. I know that there are more out there. But check them out if you like YouTube channels.

You'd have to be able to communicate what specifically starts to sway you into a faith in order for us to talk about that specific issue. If you can't do that, maybe you need to have a basis for your atheism beyond simply just never having believed before.
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27-10-2015, 10:19 AM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
(21-10-2015 12:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-10-2015 11:41 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Kent Hovind must be the single worst fraud to ever use the word "science". I've met him, back in college, and helped a professor in my biology department combat his dishonest tactics directly. He has a lot of competition for the title, but seriously, if you can find someone who has lied more in the promotion of their ideologies, I'd like to read about them. He has about as much knowledge of the findings of the biological community as my nine-year-old (arguably less, since I am a former biologist and my fiancee, his mother, still is one).

It's amazing how many people still think he's the shit though. Back when I was in undergrad physics I can't tell you how many of my fundie friends told me about his "theories", IIRC, like how the Earth was surrounded by a big-ol sphere of ice and the ice melted and that was what caused the great flood Hobo He's a prime example of making the facts fit the theory and not the theory fit the facts - from what I could tell by listening to their ravings - I never bothered with him myself.

The only reason to believe Kent Hovind is confirmation bias. He just makes up the facts in a way that sounds plausible enough that you don't have to think about them beyond what he said. And you can rest easy with confirmation that your faith somehow aligns with observable and undeniable facts about our world.

Of course, if you actually dig, you see that everything he's saying is false and based on assumptions and/or lies. Like, we can't trust radio-carbon dating. Or other methods of dating. Because he fails to understand how they're supposed to be used.
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01-11-2015, 04:33 PM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
I went back to faith, the very faith I thought I'd never return to. You know, life is a journey. And where I was before I left Christianity, and where I came to now with it, is worlds away. I don't look at everything in life as black and white, cut and dry. We all have to stay true to ourselves, and if you want to explore spirituality, there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you do it for the right reasons. I think for me, I was a Christian because my parents wanted that...I grew up with it, and it never felt like 'mine.' Having identified as an atheist for a while, it helped me see life objectively, without a god...without a religion, and coming back to faith has been a very enriching experience, one not laced with rules and regulations, and telling others what to do with their lives, was never my thing. So, I say explore what you like, but also...if you truly don't believe in a deity, don't dismiss the fact that maybe some things are going on in your life to cause this wavering of 'unfaith.' Doesn't necessarily mean that you should make a leap into faith, religion, etc. That would be for the wrong reasons.

Whatever you choose, don't fret, just follow your heart. And your mind. Together, they will guide you...If you are at peace at the end of it, therein will lie where you belong. Good luck with this.

FTR, I'm speaking in generalities, not necessarily about a particular religion. Just spirituality and religion in general.

Be true to yourself. Heart
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01-11-2015, 04:43 PM
RE: I'm losing my un-faith!
(25-10-2015 05:30 PM)‘Annette Wrote:  ...I want to believe because I feel lonely.
I'm happy with my husband and kids but the kids are older now and don't need me and my hubby does his own thing.
I have no other friends and I'm not involved with the community and I'm not really the kind of person who wants to be involved with the community but when I see my mum surrounded by her friends from her congregation I suppose I feel a bit jealous and feel like I'd like a bit of that.

Unfortunately it is emotional blackmail what they are doing to you. See how long they still want to be your BFF when you tell them I’m only here for the company and not Jeebus. They’re welcoming embrace will be but a fart in the wind.

Hang around here a bit, there are many caring people.

Oh, and welcome Thumbsup

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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