I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
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31-05-2017, 04:54 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 04:51 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 04:48 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  I'm not saying I'm smarter than scientists, I'm just trying to use common sense.

Science has repeatedly shown us that common sense fails badly when trying to model reality. And that's just within the parts we have access to. The whole point of the scientific method is to remove assumptions and bias as far as possible, and to test models objectively.

You can propose any model you like for before this certain point, but we can't test it yet. Until we can, it's just speculation. And I'd say, if anything, it's exceedingly unlikely we can even imagine how things work if you go back far enough. The inception of a reality, if that is the case, is so far outside our experience. Or maybe this reality is eternal. We don't know.
It's also worth noting that in certain practices a well known phrase is "There is no such thing as common sense", which would mean something you personally think of/think to do, is not the same as somebody else would automatically think.

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31-05-2017, 05:02 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 04:54 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 04:51 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Science has repeatedly shown us that common sense fails badly when trying to model reality. And that's just within the parts we have access to. The whole point of the scientific method is to remove assumptions and bias as far as possible, and to test models objectively.

You can propose any model you like for before this certain point, but we can't test it yet. Until we can, it's just speculation. And I'd say, if anything, it's exceedingly unlikely we can even imagine how things work if you go back far enough. The inception of a reality, if that is the case, is so far outside our experience. Or maybe this reality is eternal. We don't know.
It's also worth noting that in certain practices a well known phrase is "There is no such thing as common sense", which would mean something you personally think of/think to do, is not the same as somebody else would automatically think.

Ah nice, I've not heard that one!

Just as we see here. My "common sense" tells me that I should withhold judgment about anything I have no data about. It tells others to go ahead and create answers.

It's not like asking someone to imagine a new car. We have experiences of cars. There are things we can say which are probably going to be true about it. We have a framework of ideas and limitations. Asking someone to imagine an inception is just them making things up, basically. There's nothing to draw relevant experience from. And imagining an eternal reality is also extremely hard, at least for me.

But again, my common sense tells me that just because I can't imagine something, it doesn't mean it isn't true.

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31-05-2017, 05:11 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 04:51 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 04:39 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  By reading this I have to assume they didn't investigate the Forever Family Foundation. I found out about these group of psychics when one of them was promoting her book called the "Light Between Us" I wasn't going to buy her book, but then she did a reading live on Fox News and got it right. So I bought the book and found out that to be a psychic on the Forever Family Foundation you had to pass a series of tests performed by actual scientists trained to make absolutely sure cold readings weren't being done. That's when I decided to get a reading myself and I was baffled by the whole experience.

So you got conned again, this time into buying their book?

No offence mate, but a book written by a psychic claiming that they have to pass "real scientific tests" to be in their little club, is exactly what a psychic would say to convince pillocks like you to find out more about them. If you can tell me the name of 1 of these Scientists, and verify they are a real and practicing scientist who's not know to be a total BS artist, I'll give you a million dollars.

According to their website, to join:

Quote:After submitting a questionnaire on basic ethics and practices, mediums are invited to participate in a program that seeks to verify their ability in spirit communication.

During these sessions, mediums seeking certification are required to provide a series of readings to different sitters. The information provided by the mediums is scored by the sitters utilizing a method devised by the foundation.

In order to pass this certification, a medium must demonstrate composite scores that indicate significant proficiency, providing percentages of accuracy that are way beyond the statistical probability of chance.

So no scientist involved dude, just them coming up with some random test you take, devised BY them (that part in bold), again to con more people out of money....in this instance OTHER Psychics.

Here's a story of one of their certified psychics claiming somebody had died....when in fact they were very much alive:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/09...40157.html

The evidence in there mate, you just don't want to see it.
Where does it say that Sylvia Browne was a member of the Forever Family Foundation?
And I read on the link in certifying a medium that it was "science based" And I may have read that it was done by scientists in the book. I don't remember.
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31-05-2017, 05:13 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 04:51 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 04:48 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  I'm not saying I'm smarter than scientists, I'm just trying to use common sense.

Science has repeatedly shown us that common sense fails badly when trying to model reality. And that's just within the parts we have access to. The whole point of the scientific method is to remove assumptions and bias as far as possible, and to test models objectively.

You can propose any model you like for before this certain point, but we can't test it yet. Until we can, it's just speculation. And I'd say, if anything, it's exceedingly unlikely we can even imagine how things work if you go back far enough. The inception of a reality, if that is the case, is so far outside our experience. Or maybe this reality is eternal. We don't know.
So I can't know with common sense and absolute certainty that 2+2=4?
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31-05-2017, 05:16 AM (This post was last modified: 31-05-2017 05:23 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
How about you give the psychic a ring, and then roll a dice and ask them to tell you what the result is via your mind. Repeat 100 times.

I think you would know without even having to do this that they would probably make an excuse to avoid even starting the experiment, and that if they did go through with it, they'd do no better than random chance.

This stuff happens to not work with things which are easily verified as being true or false, and which can't be accessed any other way than genuinely using psychic abilities.

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31-05-2017, 05:18 AM (This post was last modified: 31-05-2017 05:21 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:13 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 04:51 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Science has repeatedly shown us that common sense fails badly when trying to model reality. And that's just within the parts we have access to. The whole point of the scientific method is to remove assumptions and bias as far as possible, and to test models objectively.

You can propose any model you like for before this certain point, but we can't test it yet. Until we can, it's just speculation. And I'd say, if anything, it's exceedingly unlikely we can even imagine how things work if you go back far enough. The inception of a reality, if that is the case, is so far outside our experience. Or maybe this reality is eternal. We don't know.
So I can't know with common sense and absolute certainty that 2+2=4?

You're now talking about mathematics, an abstract system. We can indeed have certainty about such systems, because we define the rules. 2+2=4 because we say it does.

Can we be certain reality will always follow the same rules as mathematics? Nope. But it has so far proved very useful in making reliable models.




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31-05-2017, 05:18 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:13 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  So I can't know with common sense and absolute certainty that 2+2=4?
Common sense is something you "should know" be default. In fact it's defined as: "good sense and sound judgement in practical matters"

A good example: I know not to put milk in a kettle, because it'll set on fire. My friend did not know because his "common sense" went 'Milk + kettle = hot milk", yet he set his kitchen on fire, and we all laughed at his stupidity. But you can see the thought behind it, it was just wrong.

In terms of Math, we do KNOW some answers, but it's not common sense because we don't know math until we are taught how it works.

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31-05-2017, 05:19 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:16 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  How about you give the psychic a ring, and then roll a dice and ask them to tell you what the result is via your mind. Repeat 100 times.

I think you would know without even having to do this that they would probably make an excuse to even start the experiment, and that if they did go through with it, they'd do no better than random chance.

This stuff happens to not work with things which are easily verified as being true or false, and which can't be accessed any other way than genuinely using psychic abilities.

> As far as I know, every alleged psychic who has been tested by a professional magician/skeptic, like James Randi, has been exposed as a fraud. Consider
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31-05-2017, 05:23 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:16 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  How about you give the psychic a ring, and then roll a dice and ask them to tell you what the result is via your mind. Repeat 100 times.

I think you would know without even having to do this that they would probably make an

excuse to even start the experiment, and that if they did go through with it, they'd do no better than random chance.

This stuff happens to not work with things which
are easily verified as being true or false, and which can't be accessed any other way than genuinely using psychic abilities.
You know, I have thought of another possibility of how these psychics are being accurate. I'm not being funny, I really am paranoid, but what if the government knows everything about everyone and the psychics are really spies?
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31-05-2017, 05:23 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:11 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  And I read on the link in certifying a medium that it was "science based" And I may have read that it was done by scientists in the book. I don't remember.
"Science Based" does not mean science. It means the foundation themselves made some sort of random test that they subject people to, and then also score it themselves, which would leave room for error/favoritism/other outside input on the marking of the test.

Again, there is enough there to really tell you what you need to know, but you're not interested. It's a widely renowned FACT that there is no such thing as psychics, again so much so that in the UK it's legally defined as entertainment, no matter what power you think you have.

I can't stress that enough. I don't know how you can stop believing in god, yet still believe in spirits and the such like.

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