I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
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31-05-2017, 05:25 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:19 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:16 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  How about you give the psychic a ring, and then roll a dice and ask them to tell you what the result is via your mind. Repeat 100 times.

I think you would know without even having to do this that they would probably make an excuse to even start the experiment, and that if they did go through with it, they'd do no better than random chance.

This stuff happens to not work with things which are easily verified as being true or false, and which can't be accessed any other way than genuinely using psychic abilities.

> As far as I know, every alleged psychic who has been tested by a professional magician/skeptic, like James Randi, has been exposed as a fraud. Consider

Yup, I believe so. These things only "work" in environments the psychic can control. If there are any genuine ones, they have avoided any kind of robust testing like the plague. I don't know why they'd be so reluctant to prove they can do what they claim.

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31-05-2017, 05:26 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:18 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:13 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  So I can't know with common sense and absolute certainty that 2+2=4?
Common sense is something you "should know" be default. In fact it's defined as: "good
sense and sound judgement in practical matters"

A good example: I know not to put milk in a kettle, because it'll set on fire. My friend did not
know because his "common sense" went 'Milk + kettle = hot milk", yet he set his kitchen on fire, and we all laughed at his stupidity. But you can see the thought behind it, it was just wrong.



In terms of Math, we do KNOW some answers, but it's not common sense because we don't know math until we are taught how it works.

But we are taught by observation what nature is. Or is reality an illusion and we're all dreaming?
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31-05-2017, 05:27 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:26 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:18 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Common sense is something you "should know" be default. In fact it's defined as: "good
sense and sound judgement in practical matters"

A good example: I know not to put milk in a kettle, because it'll set on fire. My friend did not know because his "common sense" went 'Milk + kettle = hot milk", yet he set his kitchen on fire, and we all laughed at his stupidity. But you can see the thought behind it, it was just wrong.

In terms of Math, we do KNOW some answers, but it's not common sense because we don't know math until we are taught how it works.

But we are taught by observation what nature is. Or is reality an illusion and we're all dreaming?

What? You're just getting off track now.

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31-05-2017, 05:28 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:23 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:16 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  How about you give the psychic a ring, and then roll a dice and ask them to tell you what the result is via your mind. Repeat 100 times.

I think you would know without even having to do this that they would probably make an

excuse to even start the experiment, and that if they did go through with it, they'd do no better than random chance.

This stuff happens to not work with things which
are easily verified as being true or false, and which can't be accessed any other way than genuinely using psychic abilities.
You know, I have thought of another possibility of how these psychics are being accurate. I'm not being funny, I really am paranoid, but what if the government knows everything about everyone and the psychics are really spies?

The government probably knows a lot about us. But you're suggesting they would cooperate with psychics, just to help them score some bucks from random people. This is a bit hard to believe.

To me, the most likely explanation is that they have no ability at all except being able to fool people. There is no evidence for any other explanation. They only have to convince people they've got information from them directly. And people can be easy to convince, especially regarding things they already believe.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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31-05-2017, 05:29 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:23 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:11 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  And I read on the link in certifying a medium that it was "science based" And I may have read that it was done by scientists in the book. I don't remember.

"Science Based" does not mean science. It means the foundation themselves made some sort of random test that they subject people to, and then also score it themselves, which would
leave room for error/favoritism/other outside input on the marking of the test.

Again, there is enough there to really tell you what you need to know, but you're not
interested. It's a widely renowned FACT that there is no such thing as psychics, again so much so that in the UK it's legally defined as entertainment, no matter what power you think you have.


I can't stress that enough. I don't know how you can stop believing in god, yet still believe in spirits and the such like.
If it's science based then the foundation is not making up the rules.
And I do believe in a God, just not the Christian god.
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31-05-2017, 05:31 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:27 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  What? You're just getting off track now.

Doglover's thread has been wildly off-track for pages and pages and pages. First it was about the Big Bang, then about some sort of psychic, then about the loss of his (her? not sure, didn't check, don't care) dog, now it's about the fundamental perception of reality... there's probably more but I grew weary of trying to keep his/her thought processes straight.

I originally thought Doglover was truly interested but I've come to see that it's just another theist's attempt at obfuscation. Very similar to our unlamented Celestial Wanker friend who was recently banned.
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31-05-2017, 05:32 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:26 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:18 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Common sense is something you "should know" be default. In fact it's defined as: "good
sense and sound judgement in practical matters"

A good example: I know not to put milk in a kettle, because it'll set on fire. My friend did not
know because his "common sense" went 'Milk + kettle = hot milk", yet he set his kitchen on fire, and we all laughed at his stupidity. But you can see the thought behind it, it was just wrong.



In terms of Math, we do KNOW some answers, but it's not common sense because we don't know math until we are taught how it works.

But we are taught by observation what nature is. Or is reality an illusion and we're all dreaming?

Only one of us needs to be dreaming. And there's no way to tell if we are or not. So we model what appears to be reality, and if we're doing that as part of a dream, or if I'm the only one doing it and you're all figments of my imagination, then nothing is lost. Maybe I'm a figment of yours. In the end, it doesn't matter. We all must deal with our perception of reality.

Personally, I've given up trying to define what "real" even means. I only use it subjectively and relatively. I subscribe to a form of absurdism.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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31-05-2017, 05:33 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:27 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:26 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  But we are taught by observation what nature is. Or is reality an illusion and we're all dreaming?


What? You're just getting off track now.
I'm not off track, we're talking about common sense and you're saying that actual common sense is not necessarily true. If that's true then how do we even know for sure that there is such a thing as reality?
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31-05-2017, 05:34 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:26 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  But we are taught by observation what nature is. Or is reality an illusion and we're all dreaming?

If the latter is the case, what's the point in wondering about it? You wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Meanwhile, here in reality, let's work off the assumption that everything is not just an illusion, and work on testing things in a repeatable manner so that everyone agrees that the results are congruent with "reality" as we experience it, regardless of who runs the test.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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31-05-2017, 05:35 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:28 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:23 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  You know, I have thought of another possibility of how these psychics are being accurate. I'm not being funny, I really am paranoid, but what if the government knows everything about everyone and the psychics are really spies?

The government probably knows a lot about us. But you're suggesting they would cooperate with psychics, just to help them score some bucks from random people. This is a bit hard to believe.

To me, the most likely explanation is that they have no ability at all except being able to fool people. There is no evidence for any other explanation. They only have to convince people they've got information from them directly. And people can be easy to convince, especially regarding things they already believe.
Or what if the psychics are the government and they're raising money for the government?
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