I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
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31-05-2017, 05:36 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:29 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  If it's science based then the foundation is not making up the rules.

And I do believe in a God, just not the Christian god.
Science based = something they've made up with no real definable methods behind it or actual scientists involved.

In an actual scientific method based test, something would have to be clearly defined that you can measure.

For example, take rob's rolls of the dice method. You place a psychic behind a screen, and roll a dice 100 times, asking them to tell you what number it lands on each time. Then you do this over the course of several months to make sure it's not just a fluke/dumb luck on the first attempt. Depending on their supposed claims, you could expand on this a lot, but I honestly can't understand how you dont get this:

A group of Psychics have invented a test, to certify other psychics, using a marking sheet that they have also invented themselves NOT consulting a real scientist, and you think this somehow makes them capable of doing that?

It's like saying I could write a test, and test others, in the skill of flying.

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31-05-2017, 05:36 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:33 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:27 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  What? You're just getting off track now.
I'm not off track, we're talking about common sense and you're saying that actual common sense is not necessarily true. If that's true then how do we even know for sure that there is such a thing as reality?

We don't. What does it matter if there isn't? Our experiences wouldn't be any different.

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31-05-2017, 05:38 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:31 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:27 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  What? You're just getting off track now.

Doglover's thread has been wildly off-track for pages and pages and pages. First it was about the Big Bang, then about some sort of psychic,
then about the loss of his (her? not sure, didn't check, don't care) dog, now it's about the fundamental perception of reality... there's probably more but I grew weary of trying to keep his/her thought processes straight.


I originally thought Doglover was truly interested but I've come to see that it's just another theist's attempt at obfuscation. Very similar to our
unlamented Celestial Wanker friend who was recently banned.
Well I'm a her if that helps and just because there are occasionally different topics doesn't mean the thread is not all about the same thing: The evidence for God
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31-05-2017, 05:39 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:35 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:28 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  The government probably knows a lot about us. But you're suggesting they would cooperate with psychics, just to help them score some bucks from random people. This is a bit hard to believe.

To me, the most likely explanation is that they have no ability at all except being able to fool people. There is no evidence for any other explanation. They only have to convince people they've got information from them directly. And people can be easy to convince, especially regarding things they already believe.
Or what if the psychics are the government and they're raising money for the government?

Sure...

You can write anything after "what if", but it's not of much use if there's no way to test whether it's true or not.

I think you're messing with us now.

Evidence of God? You've refused to even define God, repeatedly.

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31-05-2017, 05:39 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(30-05-2017 06:06 PM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  I'd be glad to. One of the evidences is this: Something cannot come from nothing. Even the particles that seem to pop in and out of existence comes from already existing energy from the vaccum (because there's no such thing as a perfect vaccum) Everything around us is energy, even matter is energy. And although energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can become unusable energy (in the same way that a battery loses it's usefulness.) At this rate, one day all energy will become unusable, which means that the beginning of all things would have to be created by something eternal. And since nothing that exists is capable of being eternal, nothing should exist. Therefore God (But not the Christian God)

Jesus, it's the Argument That Will Not Die.

*yawn*

Special pleading ... go look it up, kid.
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31-05-2017, 05:40 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:33 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:27 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  What? You're just getting off track now.
I'm not off track, we're talking about common sense and you're saying that actual common sense is not necessarily true. If that's true then how do we even know for sure that there is such a thing as reality?
Having "common sense" is a term used to explain how somebody *should* have knowledge of something, as most others seem to do. You're taking this to be a random thing where in your world if common sense doesn't exist, the fabric of reality becomes unraveled for some reason.

i'm not saying knowledge doesn't exist, just the term "common sense" is normally a bad thing, because it implies people SHOULD know stuff (like how you should know that psychics are garbage) but often they don't and it doesn't make them stupid, but more that you should tell them what they need to hear.

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31-05-2017, 05:41 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:32 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:26 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  But we are taught by observation what nature is. Or is reality an illusion and we're all dreaming?



Only one of us needs to be dreaming. And there's no way to tell if we are or not. So we model what appears to be reality, and if we're
doing that as part of a dream, or if I'm the only one doing it and you're all figments of my imagination, then nothing is lost. Maybe I'm a figment of yours. In the end, it doesn't matter. We all must deal with our perception of reality.


Personally, I've given up trying to define what "real" even means. I only use it subjectively and relatively. I subscribe to a form of absurdism.
But something being "true for you but not for me" doesn't mean both of us are right. Life makes more sense then you are giving it credit for.
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31-05-2017, 05:42 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(30-05-2017 06:19 PM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  Something has to be eternal or else nothing would exist.

This is what's called a non sequitur.

(30-05-2017 06:19 PM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  I meant if atheists are right then nothing is capable of being eternal.

Who cares?
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31-05-2017, 05:43 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
This is the "scorched earth" tactic, where either we allow any and all woo to be true or else nothing is true at all.

There's no need for such a dramatic false dichotomy. Provisional truth in the form of testable models is perfectly sufficient. If things can't even meet that, then they really are in trouble.

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31-05-2017, 05:45 AM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 05:38 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  Well I'm a her if that helps and just because there are occasionally different topics doesn't mean the thread is not all about the same thing: The evidence for God.

Sadly, the examples you use are simple rehashings of tired, old, worn-out and long-since-discredited arguments. I gently and humbly suggest that you acquaint yourself with those arguments and refutations.

There's nothing new that you've presented that hasn't been examined in excruciating detail before and found wanting.

There may be evidence for a God, somewhere, but so far, in thousands of years of trying, nobody has been able to show it yet. If there was, the majority of us here would change our beliefs accordingly, based on that evidence.
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