I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
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31-05-2017, 01:45 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 11:44 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 11:08 AM)adey67 Wrote:  The head of a cast coin frequently contains more metal than the tail thus a 50/50 likelihood is unlikely. Its only likely if both faces are bare and equal.

Citation please. Huh

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-na...145465423/

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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31-05-2017, 03:22 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 06:52 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Bonus question: what does "God" matter, even if it's real?

I'm an apatheist. For every time someone has tried to define what a "God" is to me, my response is that I don't care if it's real or not. Some people make the mistake of thinking I don't want there to be a God, when in fact I just don't care.

I do however find the reasons for belief interesting, and of course I find religion to be regularly dangerous and in need of checking.

On the subject of our history, here's some models:

A) Our reality is eternal. (Does this make our reality "God"? See how meaningless the word is?)

B) Our reality has a finite past, but had no external cause.

C) Our reality was created by some process in another reality, which may itself be subject to (A), (B) or ©.

D) Some other bonkers shit I can't even imagine.

There's no way to test any of these, presently. Until you have a falsifiable hypothesis, there cannot be any evidence, because you cannot separate truth from fiction. As I've said many times, logical arguments are not evidence.



I would think that God is a being like a person.
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31-05-2017, 03:25 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 07:00 AM)Norm Deplume Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 06:14 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  Isn't knowing so much about you just as unlikely as getting dice rolls correct? Besides, it's unlikely a spirit would be interested in playing your game.

No. It is considerably lmore likely. Information that already exists is far easier to obtain than information - like the outcome of a die roll - that does not.

You could even roll a different-sized die taken at random for each trial (D4, D6, D8, D12 and D20 - more exotic shapes are available.)
If it's so likely, then why don't you do a cold reading for me? Tell me my grandmother and grandfather's name from my father's side and tell me how many children they have. If it's so easy...
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31-05-2017, 03:27 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 03:22 PM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  I would think that God is a being like a person.

"You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

-Anne Lamott
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31-05-2017, 03:28 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 07:07 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 06:03 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  How do you know they made up the test? Did you look at it? Why don't you talk to one of their psychics and write up your own test and if that psychic doesn't pass you get your money back. Win-win
I KNOW they did, because THEY said it on THEIR website:

Quote:The information provided by the mediums is scored by the sitters utilizing a method devised by the foundation

So if the foundation are creating and then marking the test, who knows what the basis of the test is. But I can 100% guarantee you it's don't done in a scientifically controlled manner: Testing one/more people, over the course of say a year, doing the same test repeatedly, and then analysis the results, which by the way has been done countless times by real scientists and so far have found 0 evidence of real "powers".

And to the second point: why in fucks name would I write a psychic test? As it's illegal to make money out of that sort of tripe here in the UK, without first openly stating its for entertainment purposes only, what would I have to gain? I KNOW they are all liars, because psychics have been tested under controlled conditions for a very long time, and every time they fail the test. So why, if that is the case, is this foundation any better? Suddenly they have the power yet over 100 years worth of others where all fakes?

Honestly, I just can't understand how you can't see how this is totally fucking stupid.
If they made up the test then what did they mean when they said it was "science based"?
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31-05-2017, 03:33 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 07:30 AM)SYZ Wrote:  G'day DogLover121347, and welcome to the forums. Smile


(30-05-2017 04:49 PM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  I stopped becoming a Christian about a year ago when I found out there were contradictions in the Bible. Yet I find it impossible for me to be an atheist when there's too much evidence for the existence of a God.

I'd be interested in seeing your "evidence" supporting the existence of gods. As far as I know, they're nothing more than myths dating from thousands of years ago—and from when the population at large was scientifically illiterate.

Quote:For example, I talked to a psychic from the Forever Family Foundation to be comforted after the death of my dogs and she knew so much about my life and I've never met her before.

You need to know that self-styled "psychics" are most definitely not what they claim to be—that is, someone who can facilitate communications with dead people (were they to even exist). Psychics fall into two main categories; those people who are ignorantly self-delusional, and those who are fraudulently extracting money from their clients using false pretenses.

Quote:Well she is pretty rich. It cost me about $250 to talk to her for an hour. And she has lots and lots of clients.

LOL... and you don't see the irony of these facts? My psychologist only charges $160 an hour, so you're obviously getting ripped off in a major way.

Quote:How did she know so much about me then?

She didn't. You unwittingly told her very bit of information she gave you.

Quote:The psychic told me all about my grandmother. She knew she had 4 children and it's because of her I found out from my family she had a miscarriage. She knew my grandmother had a funny high pitched laugh and she even knew she died of a heart attack. And she knew my mother is the middle child.

No. No she didn't.

Quote:I'd say she was 90% accurate (they admit they're not all knowing) I just posted this thread to see if anyone at least believed in the possibility of a God.

And sorry, but you really need to read up on the practices of cold reading HERE before you believe that they're "99% accurate", because they're not. You're actually providing all the detail and supposed hidden knowledge they're actually feeding back to you.

Quote:Well, actually I was talking to the psychic over the phone.

Are you serious? Really? You're actually spending $250 an hour to speak to some anonymous person over the phone, and whom you've never even met? Fuck me dead. (And please feel free to phone me at 1800 DICK HEAD for the bargain price of $160 per hour. I personally guarantee everything I tell you will be 90% accurate; I can confirm I'm also very rich—which is why I spend nearly every day on the phone, speaking with gullible people I've never met or care about.)

Quote:I still admire atheists though.

Superficially, that sounds very nice, but you're obviously unaware of just how patronising that sounds.

Quote:They are brave in a close minded world.

Sorry, but this statement is absolute nonsense. Unlike theists, atheists hold no common viewpoints—other than their singular disbelief in the possibility of the existence of supernatural entities or paranormal phenomena. And it's nothing at all to do with "bravery". It's all about science, rationalisation, logic, and empirical evidence. Whereas theism is based solely on millennia-old mythology and fairy stories written thousands of years ago by a disparate group of ill-educated desert nomads—all with zero knowledge of the sciences.

And the very reason the world (at least to you) is "close minded" is largely due to religion and religious zealots. And which is why the Roman Catholic church tried to defeat scientific endeavour by attempting to execute Galileo Galilei, and banned all books advocating the Copernican system of heliocentrism, which was contradictory of biblical scripture.

And please note: 74 posts in one single thread during one single day is considered major trolling. You've been warned.

Cool
What is trolling?
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31-05-2017, 03:36 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 07:39 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 07:07 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  I KNOW they did, because THEY said it on THEIR website:


So if the foundation are creating and then marking the test, who knows what the basis of the test is. But I can 100% guarantee you it's don't done in a scientifically controlled manner: Testing one/more people, over the course of say a year, doing the same test repeatedly, and then analysis the results, which by the way has been done countless times by real scientists and so far have found 0 evidence of real "powers".

And to the second point: why in fucks name would I write a psychic test? As it's illegal to make money out of that sort of tripe here in the UK, without first openly stating its for entertainment purposes only, what would I have to gain? I KNOW they are all liars, because psychics have been tested under controlled conditions for a very long time, and every time they fail the test. So why, if that is the case, is this foundation any better? Suddenly they have the power yet over 100 years worth of others where all fakes?

Honestly, I just can't understand how you can't see how this is totally fucking stupid.

According to psychic buster Jon Donnis of Bad Psychics website it is not illegal to charge unless you use the entertainment only clause in the UK but not doing so means you can be sued if you get things wrong, to my mind if you use the clause you are literally saying I'm fake.
As it is the psychics frequently say they are forced by legislation to add the clause, thereby strongly hinting that their powers are real but they have no choice but to do it which simply isn't true, fucking grief vultures.
Or maybe they know that they would get sued over one little incorrect interpretation of what the spirits are saying.
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31-05-2017, 03:39 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 07:59 AM)Grauwyler Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 07:33 AM)julep Wrote:  Eyyyy!!

This should have been posted on page 2.

I logged in long enough last night to see the question about "state of neutrality" and didn't have the energy to go into it at the time, but wasted a few brain cells formulating a response. I log in this morning, see where it rambled around to, and was reminded of those long philosophizing pot-smoking sessions when I was younger, and realized it would only result in tired fingers and more Gish-gallop meandering. Facepalm

Doglover: if you are really interested in dialog, start considering the level of evidence it would take to convince you that you're wrong, and start applying that standard in convincing us you're right. It might help to bear in mind the old adage about "It's easier to fool someone than convince them they've been fooled."
What it would take to convince me that I'm wrong is proving that something can come from nothing and that psychics can know so much about you without you saying a word
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31-05-2017, 03:41 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 08:40 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Good point.

If the answer is, "nothing could change my mind", you have a dogmatic and unfalsifiable idea.

By the way, I'm very sorry you suffer from schizophrenia dog. I can't imagine how hard that must make things.
Thank you, schizophrenia ruined my life so badly that I'm just going to end it one day. I can't now though, I have 3 dogs that I'm not going to abandon.
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31-05-2017, 03:45 PM (This post was last modified: 31-05-2017 03:49 PM by DogLover12347.)
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 01:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 03:11 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  If not God, then what is eternal?

Define "eternal", and tell us what that means in the absence of time.
Eternal is something that existed forever in the past and will exist forever in the future.
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