I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
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31-05-2017, 07:11 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 06:34 PM)neurotibotical Wrote:  I sense much hatred in this thread.
It isn't coming from me. I just wanted a friendly discussion on the evidence of God and they're acting like this a is war or something.
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31-05-2017, 07:11 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 06:54 PM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  Something eternal has to exist. I meant in an atheist's world nothing is capable of being eternal

This is what I meant by "assertion" ...atheism is not monolithic, and few if any of us, claim any sort of knowledge about the nature of "eternity." Most of us simply don't believe in the supernatural (and even that isn't monolithic ...I know a few atheist's that believe in "ghosts" in one form or another); it's the assertion "has to" that most will take issue with.
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31-05-2017, 07:26 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 06:36 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:51 AM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  I have paranoia because of schizophrenia

You have my sincerest condolences. I lost a brother to paranoid schizophrenia. It is a horrifying disease.

You seem like a decent sort so let me explain how your psychic worked.

Back in the bad old days psychics had to rely on cold readings with the occasional helpful clue provided by the mark. Please don't give the knee-jerk "She couldn't have done a cold reading, I didn't allow it..." A proper cold reading requires zero input from you. It's based on facts that are common to the majority of their target audience.


The bit about your grandmother is classic cold reading. Almost everybody's grandmother has a funny, high-pitched laugh. In general, women
have higher-pitched voices than men. Laughter is higher-pitched than your speaking voice. As your vocal cords age your voice becomes distorted and sounds funny, especially to small children who are forming their impressions of
their grandparents.

Telling you that your grandmother had a funny high-pitched laugh was pretty much a sure thing. It sounds amazing because she couldn't
have possibly known your grandmother and it hits you deep in your emotions. It's a nasty, below the belt shot and I hope that something truly dreadful happens to your "psychic" for it.



Now let's meet the modern psychic. Most are the old-fashioned psychics because their marks are lazy, uneducated, credulous and want to
believe. A vague cold reading suffices for these.

A few have gone upscale though. These are actually teams. The one you spoke with was the charismatic partner and is almost invariably a
woman. Women tend to be better with communication, emotions and establishing trust. They're also easier to underestimate. The silent partner was likely a geeky little fellow in front of a computer monitor.


You thought that you didn't give them any information but you called them. CallerID plugs your name and number into a search engine
that starts spitting out the most fascinating facts about you. Did you pay by credit card? If you did then your identity was theirs. Plug that into a social media search and you'd be amazed how accurate the spirits get. The sneaky part is that
they won't simply hit you with stuff from your Facebook page. That might seem a little too familiar and not astonishing enough. They'll check your friends list and scour the pages of your friends and family. Using that they can
feed you all sorts of family gossip that you never knew about.

Meanwhile, you've started talking and,

unbeknown to you, your every word is being fed into a voice stress analysis program. They can see your emotional responses much more clearly than trying to read your face. They have you hooked into a polygraph and are reading
your life story off the net. Throw in the occasional surefire cold reading to fill a gap and make it sound even more miraculous. You think it's supernatural because you can't see the tech that they have you wired into but it's no more
mysterious than the words on this page.

The worst part is that they prey on the vulnerable. Those who, like you, have suffered a loss and want answers. I'm sorry that they did
that to you.

Darwin, my beagle, is curled up next to me and sends nuzzles your way.
Thank you for your condolences, you are very kind. And I had a Beagle once named Tater. He's one of them that died. My other one was a rat terrier mix named Spud and he died from cancer. At least they're not suffering anymore
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31-05-2017, 07:35 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
I'm going to comment only on the psychic part.

They're liars and full of shit. I studied mentalism and have done cold readings. You may think you gave your psychic no info, but I assure you that you did. As much as you try not to, I've been scarily accurate from watching reactions and giving vague info. Same with reading runes. In fact, I was 100% correct when reading runes.

The main difference between mentalists (in the performance magic world) and psychics is that you go into it knowing people like me are fake. A psychic will charge you money and lie.

So, whoever is reading this at this moment... You're annoyed because people never listen to you, and you feel unappreciated. (Now give me $10.)
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31-05-2017, 07:41 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 07:11 PM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 06:34 PM)neurotibotical Wrote:  I sense much hatred in this thread.
It isn't coming from me. I just wanted a friendly discussion on the evidence of God and they're acting like this a is war or something.
Believe me this is nothing, so far folks have been pretty easy on you especially considering some of the specious things you've been saying.
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31-05-2017, 07:49 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(30-05-2017 06:06 PM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  Can't you see that the way I talk couldn't possibly give her any personal information about myself?

There are none so blind as she who will not see.

(31-05-2017 06:54 PM)DogLover12347 Wrote:  Something eternal has to exist.

So you claim. You can't know that "eternal" has any actual meaning in reality let alone that is has to exist. Your "logic" is not known to be valid in the areas you are trying to extend it to.

Quote:I meant in an atheist's world nothing is capable of being eternal

That is a non-sequitur. An atheist is simply somebody who does not accept the claim that a god exists. Atheists can believe any other unsupported assertion about eternity that they want to.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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31-05-2017, 07:49 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
Beagles make great pets. You gave them a good life and that's more than some do.

We got Darwin from a shelter. We don't know who his previous owner was but he was the sort that makes me want to believe in reincarnation just so that SOB can spend the rest of time as the intestinal fauna of an incontinent Yak.

Protip: If you want a friendly discussion then don't reply to the unfriendly responses. That and keep clear of religion until you know us better. There is a near limitless supply of more interesting topics.

On the topic of causes, the universe likely doesn't and can't have one.
- A cause is an event.
- Events require both space and time.
- Without the universe there is neither space nor time and thus no causes.

Asking what caused the universe is like asking what time it was before the Big Bang. The question makes no sense because our language can't properly express the concepts.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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31-05-2017, 08:04 PM (This post was last modified: 31-05-2017 08:28 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
We're actually pretty nice people... most of us. Obviously, other than the fact that we acknowledge the real existence of zero gods, there's nothing else that's necessarily in common among atheists. We have nice ones, mean ones, and ones who only get touchy about certain subjects.

One of those subjects common to all of us [edit: "all"... that's a little joke] is when a person accuses us of false things (or generalizations about us that any non-bigot would know better than to say), when they appear to just be messing with us (trolling), or when they display what we consider shocking intellectual dishonesty. Those things tend to set a lot of us off.

Because people often put their prejudices against atheists (sometimes without realizing they're doing so) or condescending phrasing into the same sentences with religious declarations, they confuse our hostile reaction to the open disrespect to be an attack upon their religion, which many religious people consider a major part of their personal identity. So they react to the criticism of their methodology as a criticism of their faith itself, rather than the claims they/it are making, and thus an attack upon their personal identity... in other words, they react emotionally rather than rationally. Don't worry, it's perfectly human-- lots of us do the same thing.

If you take a more cautious, critical look at what we've been saying to you, they are not personal attacks of any sort, or even hostility toward you. We see the charlatans who have lied to you, tricked you, and exploited you as the persons toward whom we are directing our hostility, and at you we direct only frustration that you refuse to see what is so plainly obvious to us (and would be to you, if you'd stop reacting defensively and truly READ what is being said to you). Our goals are really the same, here-- to suss out what the truth of the situation is.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really are here trying to understand. Please go back and really read what Paleophyte wrote, word for word, and truly consider whether that's more or less likely than magical powers.

Remember, we are all, in our way, trying to defend you against people whom we know are-- because several scientific, controlled tests and examinations of the claimed phenomena have shown them to be-- professional liars, tricksters, and exploiters.

Think of it like this: if you came in here telling us about the massive fortune you were about to get from a Nigerian Prince, who just needed your $250 to access his money, and then send you a portion of that money worth millions... how would you expect us to react to your assertions? Try to picture how you would react to someone telling you about their luck in finding the Nigerian Prince. Especially someone about whom you care deeply.

Then perhaps you will understand the way we are talking to you about psychics other peddlers of "woo". And perhaps you will see that, however sharply worded, what we are saying is us trying to save you from a scam and from being hurt, emotionally or otherwise, by them.

[Second edit: Found some spelling/syntax errors.]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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31-05-2017, 08:04 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
(31-05-2017 07:49 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Beagles make great pets. You gave them a good life and that's more than some do.

We got Darwin from a shelter. We don't know who his previous owner was but he was the sort that makes me want to believe in reincarnation just so that SOB can spend the rest of time as the intestinal fauna of an incontinent Yak.

Protip: If you want a friendly discussion then don't reply to the unfriendly responses. That and keep clear of religion until you know us better. There is a near limitless supply of more interesting topics.

On the topic of causes, the universe likely doesn't and can't have one.
- A cause is an event.
- Events require both space and time.
- Without the universe there is neither space nor time and thus no causes.

Asking what caused the universe is like asking what time it was before the Big Bang. The question makes no sense because our language can't properly express the concepts.

This is good advice doglover, its simply asking for trouble to come to an atheist forum and witter about psychics and burblings from the great beyond. You like dogs I do too, my doggie is my life I would be dead without her I'm sure. Start again, avoid controversial stuff get to know folks and generally settle in and I'm sure you will find your niche here.
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31-05-2017, 08:16 PM
RE: I'm not a Christian anymore, yet I'm not an Athiest
I'm not saying OP is a bad person. I'm saying OP is human and was suckered into a bad person's cruel trick to take money. Oh, I mean, money "for entertainment purposes only."

I don't want anyone to pay for and put undue feelings into a trick.
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