I'm not an atheist, but am fed up with the BS from organized religion...
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-03-2012, 05:50 AM
 
RE: I'm not an atheist, but am fed up with the BS from organized religion...
(17-03-2012 02:54 AM)Stevil Wrote:  I can see how you might think that, from your position.
I know that you don't understand what amorality is and how a human can be amoral.
Actually, in my experience even most atheists don't subscribe to amorality. By my way of thinking atheism is inconsistent with morality, I know you would agree with this, since you would conclude that morality does exist therefore god does exit.
However I also think theism is inconsistent with morality, and I know you wouldn't agree with this.

I would be more than happy to talk you through this. You would benefit from hearing my side of the story before you conclude that this thinking is insane, before you post a strawman soliloquy on your site. An informed article would be better than one based on false preconceptions.

No thanks. I actually find your tone incredibly narcissistic. I have no desire to talk to you at all. You say, "I know that you don't understand what amorality is and how a human can be amoral." But you are wrong. The one thing I am sure of; the one thing I really know from my life experience is how a human can be amoral. I think I've seen about ten or twelve really good examples of it today alone.

So, you don't need to "talk me through" anything. I'm not really interested in your opinion beyond what you've already voiced.
Quote this message in a reply
17-03-2012, 07:13 AM
RE: I'm not an atheist, but am fed up with the BS from organized religion...
(15-03-2012 08:13 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Have you prayed about it? Big Grin
No, not really as I don't think it's necessary.

(15-03-2012 08:45 PM)Logisch Wrote:  Which arguments specifically do you find intriguing and why?

(15-03-2012 09:22 PM)Godless Wrote:  You may want to look up Humanism it provides many answers to the faith and purpose of life question without actually going down the religious path.  It's the humanistic approach that so many churches totally ignore. 
I'm a very intelligent person with an advanced technical education plus wide cultural experience, yet for the life of me I can't justify existence as being a coincidence. Just haven't figured that one out...

(16-03-2012 11:47 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(16-03-2012 06:59 AM)JFReyes Wrote:  Nevertheless, my beef isn't with the Catholic church (because they usually stick to their ages old script and don't pester too much)

Gotta pick you up on that one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQIME6yyKq4
Well, I meant the 2012 Catholic church where I live. Doesn't apply throughout history or anyplace else.

(15-03-2012 08:17 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Do you mean that you are a believer and the latest wave of "feel good mega church Jesus loves all of you now give us 10% of your income" is irritating you?
-or-
Are you waking up to the fact that the faily tales that you were told as a child just don't seem true any more?

(16-03-2012 01:23 PM)Egor Wrote:  What can you do? Don't send them money and don't watch them. They were bad, but I have no doubt God will count the money your mother gave to them as good. So, it wasn't wasted. No good act done from a heart that loves Christ is ever wasted.

Maybe you should just stay Catholic for now and develop your own brand of spirituality. Changing the world starts with changing you, right?

I never give any money to organized religion nor politicians, but I sure do keep an eye on them: "Know thy enemy" - Sun Tzu. As far as being Catholic, I only claim the historical fact that I was raised Catholic. At 51 years old, by now I have developed my own brand of spirituality and it has served me well.

I hardly ever talk to anyone about religion because I think it's a waste of time - neither of us will change beliefs. I am frustrated at the manipulation of the weak by the powerful, but I guess it applies to other areas of life as well.

José
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-03-2012, 07:29 AM
RE: I'm not an atheist, but am fed up with the BS from organized religion...
(17-03-2012 07:13 AM)JFReyes Wrote:  I hardly ever talk to anyone about religion because I think it's a waste of time - neither of us will change beliefs. I am frustrated at the manipulation of the weak by the powerful, but I guess it applies to other areas of life as well.

Ok, so I'm thinking that it's the injustice and the ignorance you dislike... or the willingness of the ignorant to accept the injustice.

How active do you want to be with the debunking? Are you looking to save your neighbours from their slavery?

Or did you just want to express the deep sadness that comes with the realisation that some will never find the beauty, wisdom, truth and happiness that comes with free-thought and knowledge?

If so, I feel it too.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
17-03-2012, 07:41 AM
RE: I'm not an atheist, but am fed up with the BS from organized religion...
(17-03-2012 07:13 AM)JFReyes Wrote:  I'm a very intelligent person with an advanced technical education plus wide cultural experience, yet for the life of me I can't justify existence as being a coincidence. Just haven't figured that one out...

The term of coincidence can be a little off base to how many people would articulate it when looking at the development of life as we are aware of it.

If that is one of your biggest concerns. Looking into the Multiverse Hypothesis may be something that could answer your questioning. If you take into being fond of it; because, it postulates that there may exist a plethora of universe's that exist with each having different levels of how the forces of the universe exist. In thinking the reason our universe is the way it is, is because it was fined tuned this particular way which lead to our human existence on this spot in the corner of this universe... Other universe's could be devoid of all life.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-03-2012, 10:08 AM (This post was last modified: 17-03-2012 10:16 AM by JFReyes.)
RE: I'm not an atheist, but am fed up with the BS from organized religion...
(17-03-2012 07:29 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(17-03-2012 07:13 AM)JFReyes Wrote:  I hardly ever talk to anyone about religion because I think it's a waste of time - neither of us will change beliefs. I am frustrated at the manipulation of the weak by the powerful, but I guess it applies to other areas of life as well.

Ok, so I'm thinking that it's the injustice and the ignorance you dislike... or the willingness of the ignorant to accept the injustice.

How active do you want to be with the debunking? Are you looking to save your neighbours from their slavery?

Or did you just want to express the deep sadness that comes with the realisation that some will never find the beauty, wisdom, truth and happiness that comes with free-thought and knowledge?

If so, I feel it too.

Yes, the willingness of the ignorant to accept the injustice is a big factor in my sadness. I'm no one's savior but would be willing to put some effort into a website or something for local consumption to at least provide a different perspective on "Religion, Inc.".

Hmm... I witnessed something interesting this morning when I was returning from the post office after picking up my mail. There were a group of 15-20 people on the sidewalk apparently having a religious gathering (Bibles in their hands, one carrying a guitar, etc.). They didn't seem to be on a Saturday missionary trip, but rather that they were coalescing into forming a church. Even with such a humble beginning I wonder who in attendance was genuinely looking for solace and who had ulterior motives, grander plans...

(17-03-2012 07:41 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(17-03-2012 07:13 AM)JFReyes Wrote:  I'm a very intelligent person with an advanced technical education plus wide cultural experience, yet for the life of me I can't justify existence as being a coincidence. Just haven't figured that one out...

The term of coincidence can be a little off base to how many people would articulate it when looking at the development of life as we are aware of it.

If that is one of your biggest concerns. Looking into the Multiverse Hypothesis may be something that could answer your questioning. If you take into being fond of it; because, it postulates that there may exist a plethora of universe's that exist with each having different levels of how the forces of the universe exist. In thinking the reason our universe is the way it is, is because it was fined tuned this particular way which lead to our human existence on this spot in the corner of this universe... Other universe's could be devoid of all life.
I meant existence in the broader sense, not just human life. Where did the singularity that started the Big Bang come from, or other multiverses (which I consider are possible) for that matter?

José
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-03-2012, 10:59 AM
RE: I'm not an atheist, but am fed up with the BS from organized religion...
(17-03-2012 10:08 AM)JFReyes Wrote:  Where did the singularity that started the Big Bang come from... ?

Good question.
I am sure will have an answer one day (ask Laurence Krauss, he seems to be on to it).
I take the atheist position on this because I see no evidence to prove a devine entity behind it all (infinite regress etc.).

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
17-03-2012, 12:39 PM (This post was last modified: 17-03-2012 01:04 PM by Stevil.)
RE: I'm not an atheist, but am fed up with the BS from organized religion...
(17-03-2012 05:50 AM)Egor Wrote:  No thanks. I actually find your tone incredibly narcissistic. I have no desire to talk to you at all. You say, "I know that you don't understand what amorality is and how a human can be amoral." But you are wrong. The one thing I am sure of; the one thing I really know from my life experience is how a human can be amoral. I think I've seen about ten or twelve really good examples of it today alone.

So, you don't need to "talk me through" anything. I'm not really interested in your opinion beyond what you've already voiced.
The reason why I said this is because you stated "Because, for as insane as it is, it is the true atheist position. It is the inevitable atheist position. Nevertheless, what you are saying, in my opinion, is at the root of a lot of mental illnesses."
This clearly shows me that you don't understand what amorality in humans is.
I was willing to give you a view that might allow you to see how it is not insane, that it is not the root of mental illness but also agreeing with your statement that it is the inevitable atheist position.
But it seems to me you are acting consistent with many believers of religion and that is to take the blissfully ignorant route.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-03-2012, 12:49 PM (This post was last modified: 17-03-2012 12:56 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: I'm not an atheist, but am fed up with the BS from organized religion...
(17-03-2012 05:50 AM)Egor Wrote:  No thanks. I actually find your tone incredibly narcissistic. I have no desire to talk to you at all.

Just 'cause I like you, don't mean I don't wanna put my foot to yer ass at times. Big Grin
Where did the big bang come from?

Uncertainty. Wink

There ain't another one 'cause we're here taking up space. This obsession with causality and sequence; you do realize it is evolutionary, no? Ever wake up in the morning, not knowing where you were? In order to efficiently process information, there is a reliance on sequential events; without sequency, there is insanity... I should know.

But should sanity limit god? Surely not. Obsession over causation is yet another indicator of the shortsightedness of many theists. I come from my Gwynnies even though she was born four years after me - so the rumor goes. Time can kiss my ass. Big Grin

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like houseofcantor's post
17-03-2012, 02:36 PM
 
RE: I'm not an atheist, but am fed up with the BS from organized religion...
(17-03-2012 12:39 PM)Stevil Wrote:  The reason why I said this is because you stated "Because, for as insane as it is, it is the true atheist position. It is the inevitable atheist position. Nevertheless, what you are saying, in my opinion, is at the root of a lot of mental illnesses."
This clearly shows me that you don't understand what amorality in humans is.
I was willing to give you a view that might allow you to see how it is not insane, that it is not the root of mental illness but also agreeing with your statement that it is the inevitable atheist position.
But it seems to me you are acting consistent with many believers of religion and that is to take the blissfully ignorant route.

Yeah, I missed out on the great teachings of an amoral atheist. I wrote a story about you at The Veridican. (Just click the website button below.) There's no way to comment on it there, but I'll certainly entertain your comments about it here. And again, thanks for the story idea.
Quote this message in a reply
17-03-2012, 02:53 PM
RE: I'm not an atheist, but am fed up with the BS from organized religion...
(16-03-2012 06:59 AM)JFReyes Wrote:  First off, I live in Puerto Rico, a U.S. territory with a 500 year old Spanish culture that is mostly Catholic. I was raised Catholic but hardly ever go to any church, though I consider myself "spiritual". Nevertheless, my beef isn't with the Catholic church (because they usually stick to their ages old script and don't pester too much) but rather with many other Christian denominations, particularly the ones with TV exposure. The few megachurches here are modeled after the American ones, albeit much smaller.

No. The Catholic Church is responsible for far more than what you say they are.

[Image: Untitled-2.png?_subject_uid=322943157&am...Y7Dzq4lJog]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: