I'm not religious but...
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10-05-2013, 12:30 PM
RE: I'm not religious but...
In addition to what has been said, I always took it as they think OTHER people have religions (since they think other religions are wrong), and what they have is not a religion but a REAL "relationship" with god. I take it to mean they're saying "other people are worshiping wrong, or worshiping the wrong god(s)."
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10-05-2013, 12:39 PM
RE: I'm not religious but...
(10-05-2013 12:30 PM)amyb Wrote:  In addition to what has been said, I always took it as they think OTHER people have religions (since they think other religions are wrong), and what they have is not a religion but a REAL "relationship" with god. I take it to mean they're saying "other people are worshiping wrong, or worshiping the wrong god(s)."

Amyb,

That makes complete sense. They use religion as false beliefs and what they have is the truth.
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10-05-2013, 12:56 PM
RE: I'm not religious but...
(10-05-2013 12:30 PM)amyb Wrote:  In addition to what has been said, I always took it as they think OTHER people have religions (since they think other religions are wrong), and what they have is not a religion but a REAL "relationship" with god. I take it to mean they're saying "other people are worshiping wrong, or worshiping the wrong god(s)."

This is the rationale I used to use when I was one of "them." It's the apologist's way of playing word acrobatics.

Example of usage:

"Hey, Mr. Christian. How do you justify your religion as being right when there are hundreds of not thousands of religions?"

"Well, Mr. Heathen, that's because Christianity is not about rules and regulations like religions are. I am not saved by following rules, I'm saved by having a personal relationship with The Little Lord Baby Jesus. All religions that have ever existed are founded on "man" reaching toward the divine by trying to follow rules in order to be good enough for God to notice them. In Christianity, the divine reaches down to us through the sacrifice of God's Son on the cross. I can never be good enough to be in God's presence, but by having a relationship with Jesus Christ, then I am made good enough through him. So you see, Christianity is not about rules, but it is all about the personal relationship we can have with God. Checkmate, Atheists!"

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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10-05-2013, 12:59 PM
RE: I'm not religious but...
(10-05-2013 12:30 PM)amyb Wrote:  In addition to what has been said, I always took it as they think OTHER people have religions (since they think other religions are wrong), and what they have is not a religion but a REAL "relationship" with god. I take it to mean they're saying "other people are worshiping wrong, or worshiping the wrong god(s)."

They absolutely DO think that. . . . as I did when I was "a christian". Of course, no other dogma can be anything but "a religion", and man made at that! Needless to say, they fail to see that their own "relationship" is a man made thing as well.
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10-05-2013, 01:00 PM
RE: I'm not religious but...
Hate makes a useful vector. Take, for example, me, my Gwynnies, and Egor. We're both prophets of the same kinda god, but the hate he generates gives him the pageviews. Undecided

Love tends to be vast and undefined. If you can see it from where you're standing, I ain't gotta label it for ya.

And the more I argue it as a prophet, the more I can say god is a place where you go. I sure as fuck go, looking at my Gwynnies. Big Grin

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10-05-2013, 01:07 PM
RE: I'm not religious but...
(10-05-2013 01:00 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Hate makes a useful vector. Take, for example, me, my Gwynnies, and Egor. We're both prophets of the same kinda god, but the hate he generates gives him the pageviews. Undecided

Love tends to be vast and undefined. If you can see it from where you're standing, I ain't gotta label it for ya.

And the more I argue it as a prophet, the more I can say god is a place where you go. I sure as fuck go, looking at my Gwynnies. Big Grin

That just goes to show there are two kinds of crazy: The quaint, "Oh, isn't Johnny cute the way he falls apart every time he sees a picture of Ms. Paltrow?"

Versus, The Bat-shit Crazy: "Everyone who disagrees with my self-concocted religion should die and suffer in hell forever."

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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10-05-2013, 01:09 PM
RE: I'm not religious but...
(10-05-2013 01:07 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(10-05-2013 01:00 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Hate makes a useful vector. Take, for example, me, my Gwynnies, and Egor. We're both prophets of the same kinda god, but the hate he generates gives him the pageviews. Undecided

Love tends to be vast and undefined. If you can see it from where you're standing, I ain't gotta label it for ya.

And the more I argue it as a prophet, the more I can say god is a place where you go. I sure as fuck go, looking at my Gwynnies. Big Grin

That just goes to show there are two kinds of crazy: The quaint, "Oh, isn't Johnny cute the way he falls apart every time he sees a picture of Ms. Paltrow?"

Versus, The Bat-shit Crazy: "Everyone who disagrees with my self-concocted religion should die and suffer in hell forever."

There's only 1 kinda sane, so there's 0 kinda crazy. Tongue

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10-05-2013, 02:27 PM
RE: I'm not religious but...
(10-05-2013 01:09 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(10-05-2013 01:07 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  That just goes to show there are two kinds of crazy: The quaint, "Oh, isn't Johnny cute the way he falls apart every time he sees a picture of Ms. Paltrow?"

Versus, The Bat-shit Crazy: "Everyone who disagrees with my self-concocted religion should die and suffer in hell forever."

There's only 1 kinda sane, so there's 0 kinda crazy. Tongue

There you go again, mouthing off like the null set actually MEANS something. Drinking Beverage

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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10-05-2013, 07:38 PM
RE: I'm not religious but...
(10-05-2013 10:00 AM)JAH Wrote:  This idea of a relationship with god (more commenly jesus) has been around a lot longer than 25 years and I do not think it is an attempt to be more contempary.

I rather more think that it is indicates that the individual does not need a "religion" to tell them how to believe, they mainline god's wisdom. I think attendence at a mega church that regularly draws 3000 clearly puts the lie to the original statement. If their relationship is personal why do they need any church large or small.

JAH,

If we were to be technical about the issue, you are right that the notion of relationship with God is much older than 25 years. It is implicit in the nature of religion and human status under the gods, and has been a functional aspect of religion since (at least) the early paleolithic era.

It is my understanding, however, that the OP was intending to ask about a sociological phenomenon he noted within a certain contemporary context. If I'm wrong about that assumption, that's fine. I apologise for misunderstanding.

If I'm right, however, my own studies suggest that the particular emphasis on 'relationship over religion' comes about roughly with the advent of the Vineyard movement. I suppose one could make an argument for the Azusa St. Revivals that launched modern Pentecostalism (ca. 1906), but the emphasis there was more on the experience of the Holy Spirit, not necessarily on personal relationship with God vs. holding to a religion.

I do appreciate how you stated that the people who involve themselves in such distinctions are essentially trying to "mainline God's wisdom." I think that's a fair way to explain the psychology behind the semantics: by making God's wisdom appear common and human, it becomes more appealing. At least, in theory.

The difficulty is that any Christian really taking his/her religion seriously cannot simply accept such a distinction as a de facto reality because, by doing so, they deny the history of how the church they attend came to be. And, also, how a lot of our own judicial system and historical moral templates have influenced the culture we find ourselves in today.

By denying that Christianity is a religion, a Christian denies the skeletal structure of their own metaphysic. Thus the reason the notion of a 'relationship' seems so flimsy, weak, and unable to stand on its own.
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11-05-2013, 04:02 PM
RE: I'm not religious but...
Kane, I was in general commenting on my own experience with evanglicals some 40+ years ago, very much advocating a personal relationship with jesus. Reading the Wiki (yeah I know not always the best source but easy for the lazy) entry on the Vineyard Movement I can see the basis of your reasoning.

You have said things that I agree with completely. I might add as I did above, mear attendence at a church (any sort of temple) makes any statement of an individual trying to distance themselves from religion false.
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