I'm not sure whether I want to join the fight on religion or turn a blind eye
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05-04-2013, 06:28 PM
I'm not sure whether I want to join the fight on religion or turn a blind eye
There are ways of affecting change in the world that do not involve direct confrontation.

Also, just because you don't feel like confronting any theists now doesn't mean you won't feel up to it later. Perhaps you just need a break? Don't be so hard on yourself.

I can't speak for anyone else but in my experience when I find myself losing patience with those around me, theist or otherwise, the problem is usually mine. Lack of sleep or just too much pressure or stress. Take some time to breathe and enjoy life for a bit. Regain your perspective so you can remember why you want to improve this world you live in.

I think everyone who posted before me has also given you sound advice. Like Aeth said, the flanking maneuver in this battle would be on the education front. How well do you get on with today's youth?
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05-04-2013, 08:00 PM
RE: I'm not sure whether I want to join the fight on religion or turn a blind eye
Thank you everyone for their replies, there is a lot of good advice here that I will have to reflect over. A few days ago I submitted an application to the UK board of education for a petition to try and get the teaching of critical thinking compulsory in schools. A lot of the advice here suggests the best way to combat religion is through the teaching of critical thinking to the younger generation. If the application is passed which depends on if there is or is not a current similar petition, then I am to promote the petition. If it gets over 100,000 signatures them by law it has to be discussed in parliament. I don't know how sussessful it will be, but it will at least be a start.

"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." - Henry David Thoroeau

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05-04-2013, 09:08 PM
I'm not sure whether I want to join the fight on religion or turn a blind eye
(05-04-2013 08:00 PM)TheLogicalAthiest Wrote:  Thank you everyone for their replies, there is a lot of good advice here that I will have to reflect over. A few days ago I submitted an application to the UK board of education for a petition to try and get the teaching of critical thinking compulsory in schools. A lot of the advice here suggests the best way to combat religion is through the teaching of critical thinking to the younger generation. If the application is passed which depends on if there is or is not a current similar petition, then I am to promote the petition. If it gets over 100,000 signatures them by law it has to be discussed in parliament. I don't know how sussessful it will be, but it will at least be a start.

That sounds like a fantastic use of your time and energy. Best of luck! Is there anything we can do to help? I realize we likely can't sign it. Pity really.
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05-04-2013, 10:38 PM
RE: I'm not sure whether I want to join the fight on religion or turn a blind eye
We should definitely fight religion as if we were at war with it, because I've no doubt they see it as a war with us. I said that before this, though, on purpose. I know hearing about how muhamed was transported to heaven on the back of a pegasus, or about an 80 year old mormon's future prospects on planet salt lake city (or klolob, whatever), grates on the nerves like a cadaver's nails across a chalkboard, but some get immunity status. Some are born into, & live whole lives in, conditions that would be considered unbearable by U.S. homeless people! Those poor pot-bellied african babies with the horseflies sucking blood out of their facial sores get a pass on believing in talking snakes, when that belief happens to be attached to the whole "you'll get another chance" deal. Moreover, if I'm not gonna spend MY money, part with MY possesions, or (worst of all apparently) get MY hands dirty actually DOING something, to drag poor hadji outta the mud, & you're not gonna take up a militarily viable assault rifle with an illegaly volumous 30 round magazine to dispatch the warlord's henchmen who KEEP him toiling in the DIRT, then who are you, or I, to crush what may very well be the 1 & ONLY hope he's been convinced he has, other than utterly cruel individuals? Not all are ignorant and arrogant, some are UTTERLY desperate & succeptible to your average run of the mill snake oil salesman! Just like in any "war" there ARE "grunts" who are more victim/conscript than soldier/volunteer. So arguing with the christians down the street doesn't seem as high a strategic target as, say, establishing laws that would make illegal the indoctrination of humans under the age of 20 (don't get your panties in a bunch-I know It'd be impossible to achieve a passing of such a law due to the religious with even half a brain realizing it'd cut down on new recruits, and cause them to humbly send us deaththreats.....unless we FIGHT, and fight hard, & fight SMART)! Unfortunately, I'm not a strategist, so someone more gifted in that area will be needed to give me my marching orders. If anybody knows what to do, call me!
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one stiking at the root" Henry David Thoreau

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06-04-2013, 03:28 AM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 05:41 AM by TheLogicalAthiest.)
RE: I'm not sure whether I want to join the fight on religion or turn a blind eye
(05-04-2013 09:08 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 08:00 PM)TheLogicalAthiest Wrote:  Thank you everyone for their replies, there is a lot of good advice here that I will have to reflect over. A few days ago I submitted an application to the UK board of education for a petition to try and get the teaching of critical thinking compulsory in schools. A lot of the advice here suggests the best way to combat religion is through the teaching of critical thinking to the younger generation. If the application is passed which depends on if there is or is not a current similar petition, then I am to promote the petition. If it gets over 100,000 signatures them by law it has to be discussed in parliament. I don't know how sussessful it will be, but it will at least be a start.

That sounds like a fantastic use of your time and energy. Best of luck! Is there anything we can do to help? I realize we likely can't sign it. Pity really.

Thank you for the support. If the application is accepted, which I hope it is, then I plan to post on atheist and skeptic message boards as well as Facebook, asking people to consider signing the petition and promoting it, as 100,000 signatures is a quite a lot. Only UK citizens are allowed to sign unfortunately. There's no reason why people in other countries couldn't try the same, and petition for the compulsory teaching of critical thinking in their countries!

"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." - Henry David Thoroeau

Please check out my YouTube channel! Thumbsup http://www.youtube.com/user/1ScottUK
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06-04-2013, 06:06 PM
I'm not sure whether I want to join the fight on religion or turn a blind eye
(06-04-2013 03:28 AM)TheLogicalAthiest Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 09:08 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  That sounds like a fantastic use of your time and energy. Best of luck! Is there anything we can do to help? I realize we likely can't sign it. Pity really.

Thank you for the support. If the application is accepted, which I hope it is, then I plan to post on atheist and skeptic message boards as well as Facebook, asking people to consider signing the petition and promoting it, as 100,000 signatures is a quite a lot. Only UK citizens are allowed to sign unfortunately. There's no reason why people in other countries couldn't try the same, and petition for the compulsory teaching of critical thinking in their countries!

Noted!
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06-04-2013, 11:32 PM
RE: I'm not sure whether I want to join the fight on religion or turn a blind eye
(20-03-2013 10:34 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I understand your frustration, I feel much the same way that you do.

As for fighting it, well, you're right, one person cannot do much to change the indoctrinated mindset of some 6 billion people.

But I firmly believe that the human race has a chance to be great, far greater than we are now. But to get there, good people have to do the right thing. If we all stand around and watch the human race drive itself into oblivion because we're too tired or too frustrated to get involved, well, then we deserve what we get.

I see it as my duty to step up, to speak up for rationality and reason, to show others who might be too tired or too frustrated or too afraid to do it for themselves. I'm not always right. I know that. But I know that if I do nothing, then I will certainly be always wrong.

Maybe this will help with your frustration. Remember that when you take the religious bull by the horns and counter their irrationality with your a healthy dose of reason and logic, you will almost never get through to the person with whom you're debating, but others who see or hear or read what you've said, passersby, lurkers, people who are beginning to doubt their delusions, those are the people you're really helping. You'll almost never know it; they'll almost never seek you out and tell you that you helped them into the light of reason - many of them won't remember, later, that it was you as opposed to someone else speaking up for rationality.

So, you may remain frustrated that you debated with a clueless theist and didn't change their delusion one bit, but others may benefit from your efforts.

So keep up the good fight.
Beautiful!
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06-04-2013, 11:48 PM
RE: I'm not sure whether I want to join the fight on religion or turn a blind eye
(05-04-2013 08:00 PM)TheLogicalAthiest Wrote:  If it gets over 100,000 signatures them by law it has to be discussed in parliament. I don't know how sussessful it will be, but it will at least be a start.

I congratulate you for actually doing something for a cause you believe in. I would sign as a Citizen of the Commonwealth but I don't want to screw up your efforts. Wink

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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07-04-2013, 12:16 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2013 12:26 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: I'm not sure whether I want to join the fight on religion or turn a blind eye
Here is another angle to consider.

I try not to attack the run-of-the-mill Christian, but I do go for the jugular when it comes to churches, preachers and priests. These are the people who make a living out of religion, and they are the main reason why Christianity persists. If the average Christian develops an awareness of how they are being used, then they're less likely to be victimized.

One of the main weapons these Christian authorities have in their arsenal is the Bible. Here is my brief conclusion about the purpose of the Bible...

The Real Purpose of the Bible
Authorities in churches usually claim the bible exists for people’s benefit, yet I think it was created for crowd control.

God didn’t write it, nor did bona-fide historians, or people discussing what they thought was the truth, or people who genuinely cared about their readers. It was scrawled by power hungry priests and propagandists; spin-doctors asserting their own authority.

They had a similar agenda to people who currently work in advertising agencies, and their writings share many of the features of an advertising campaign. The Bible was written to profit certain groups; it contains little of true value, and its authors tried to appeal to the emotions and dreams of the masses to push a product. The bible was written for the hoi polloi, the gullible gatherings, the naive people, the consumers; those who are easily impressed by promises and frightened by threats. It was thought up to promote power over them and empty their pockets. It worked, and this is the main reason it’s survived the passage of time.

All talk about spirituality, morals and ethics in the bible is just floss designed to disguise the above.

Promoting biblical propaganda is an old trick. Priests and preachers want the people dreaming and scheming about the after-life, as that gives them power. Preaching the bible requires no real resources to get results. Stories of gods, miracles, prophets, promises of heaven and threats of hell require nothing more than confidence and an active imagination to advertise.

The Bible is a product of the petty politics of power-hungry people. The very core of Christianity has no legitimate authority. It’s nothing more than a mountain of superstitious nonsense.
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