I make no apology for holding religion in contempt.
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13-11-2017, 06:08 PM
RE: I make no apology for holding religion in contempt.
(09-11-2017 04:41 AM)Belaqua Wrote:  Those artists worked all their lives to express certain ideas, very often religious ones. If you hold their ideas in contempt, but admire the way the things look, then you are not seeing what the art is all about.
Art is "about" evoking a response in an audience. It is not necessary that the audience respond to a work in the same way as the artist that created it. Indeed, it would be a hugely self-limited work of art that only evoked such a narrow response. People often find things in artistic works of which the artist him- or her-self was unaware.

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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13-11-2017, 06:20 PM
RE: I make no apology for holding religion in contempt.
I agree with you Banjo it is a vile poison that I will oppose until my dying days. I will not give up though because I have skin in this game with my children and spouse. You are tired, I get that and certainly will not chastize you for feeling this way.

Cheers dude.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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13-11-2017, 10:23 PM
RE: I make no apology for holding religion in contempt.
(02-11-2017 03:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I know this is a mild mannered website where the hope theists will eventually find reason attractive is paramount.

Fools.

Sadly, I do not share this, to my mind, naive and forlorn hope.

Indeed, when recently I saw a theist offering apologetics, and called the theist out, I was attacked. By the administrator!

These days I fear I have lost hope. Humanity is too stupid to exist. One may consider the animal undeserving.

I do not know how long I intend to remain on this planet. Suicide becomes more attractive daily. I am not looking for condolence. I no longer care.

Atheists have been murdered for thousands of years. Persecuted over a longer age than the Jews. This fact is, I feel, often under appreciated.

Why should I be patient with this? Unlike many here, I have been an atheist my entire life. I was never a theist. Perhaps this is something that cannot be felt by those who were so easily fooled in the past?

I have no answer. I cannot relate to these individuals. I do not respect them.

I make no apology for this.

I am glad they finally grew up.

Now I look at myself. I believe I am arrogant. I see all my faults. None escape me. And this makes life and living incredibly difficult. I find I am alone. Always. Indeed, since 8 years old.

This is how it is and must be. How long I endure this is unknown, and I am losing patience fast. Both with myself and everything else.

Religion, to me, is the ultimate danger to our existence. Especially the death cults of xianity and islam. Ideas that place a greater importance on death than life.

How am I to be patient with this danger? To roll over and surrender to this idiocy would be cowardice. And I am no coward.

I am however very tired.

If anyone thinks I am too harsh with religious delusion, screw you.

I am going to call it out whenever I see it.

If you want to silence me, ban me.

This post is no cry for help. Screw that. Call me any name you want. I no longer care.

Personally I can see how you feel, I once felt that way, then I developed a policy don't step on my toes and I won't yours. Takes alot to get me mad, and I like to think there is good in all even if others seem to hold their true feelings under a book of fears.

People are shitty, there is nothing much we can do about that. Seems like now people are slowly, more and more, going to letting their emotions speak louder than their logical minds. I also know what it's like to be attacked by people for how I think or feel.

Seems like if you get people to think, they don't want to. Actually I wrote a philosophy paper on this, that, by nature, we are emotion driven animals rather than logic. Thus far, it's proven to be true.

Should you say what you think, how you think, and based on your experiences you feel justified, the world will just shut you down. They don't want people to have opinions. You can have your freedoms, that is until your freedoms infringe on mine sort of policy I've been noticing lately.

Are we not free here to discuss our ideas among each other, regardless of religion or not? We each have gone through our own experiences that have lead us up to this point in our lives. Many feel religion just causes problems, others haven't gone through what this person has. Or, perhaps, we have, and just have come another conclusion then they have.
As of lately it feels that people just out right attack, berate, and get angry when someone dares have another opinion to them. Isn't that what talking is about, it's call a discussion, not a bash-fest. In the words of one of my favorite characters on Supernatural.

"Can't we all just get along?" Smile

No? Okay then... Blush

"Governments don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking That is against their interests.
They want obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork And just dumb enough to passively accept it."

- George Carlin
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13-11-2017, 10:54 PM
RE: I make no apology for holding religion in contempt.
(09-11-2017 06:32 AM)Belaqua Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 05:56 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Are you actually so pretentious that you are dictating how people should experience art?

Deese is saying that the thinking, motivations, and goals of nearly every great artist in the West are bullshit.

In my opinion it is pretentious of her to say so.

If you want to reduce all religious art to its surface level, and admire the pretty colors, I won't stop you. I will say that you are eliminating most of the thought and feeling that goes into it, which it was intended to induce and celebrate.

It reduces the different eras and styles to different pages in a shopping catalog. Some people like Persian Muslim art, and some people like French Gothic, but, hey, it's all pretty, and you can go to different rooms on different days.

Bruegel, to take an example more or less at random, is so deeply soaked in the theology of his time that to ignore it, or to call it bullshit, would be the same as calling him a fool who happened to draw well. I have more respect for him than that. And though I don't share his beliefs, it would be arrogant of me to call him a fool. He was a better man than I.

Removing the history of these wonderful things and treating them as decoration is a symptom of a history-less, uneducated culture. It's truthiness.

More straw man arguments. Facepalm

No one has made any of those statements. You have let your religious fog block your reading comprehension.
And possibly your reasoning ability, too. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-11-2017, 04:47 AM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2017 05:04 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: I make no apology for holding religion in contempt.
(13-11-2017 10:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 06:32 AM)Belaqua Wrote:  If you want to reduce all religious art to its surface level, and admire the pretty colors, I won't stop you. I will say that you are eliminating most of the thought and feeling that goes into it, which it was intended to induce and celebrate.
...
Removing the history of these wonderful things and treating them as decoration is a symptom of a history-less, uneducated culture. It's truthiness.

More straw man arguments. Facepalm

There are two completely different approaches involved, to art history and to art aesthetics. I find art history fascinating because it tells us so much about cultural assumptions at different times. But I also appreciate some art aesthetically and much more selectively because it speaks to my own assumptions about the world and to my technical interests as an amateur artist.

Many modern artists, starting with Cezanne, deliberately attempted to reduce art to its surface level and avoid loading it with cultural assumptions which were certain to become outdated with the passing of time. He wanted to take the impressionist focus on visual experience and make it timeless using classic composition techniques. For that reason, he had a big influence on other artists.
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