I may not be back for some time
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11-05-2017, 11:29 PM
RE: I may not be back for some time
(11-05-2017 07:58 PM)Aractus Wrote:  I'm going to write my thoughts/feelings out and hopefully someone has some ideas. I'm not going back to fundamentalism - that's the past, and I've moved on from that, I began moving on a long long time ago, and it's taken me about 10-15 years I would say to rid myself of fundamentalist ideologies. Whether it's Christian fundamentalism, atheist fundamentalism, Western fundamentalism, or Islamic fundamentalism, Environmental fundamentalism, or any other fundamentalist ideology - it's all the same fallacy. It's a social bubble that binds people together with their group-think world-views/beliefs that are based on a flawed understanding of other people/groups....

A couple of points before you depart:

Atheists cannot logically be defined as "fundamentalists". There are two definitions of the word: a person who adheres strictly to the basic principles of any subject or discipline or a person who believes in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture in a religion. Atheists, obviously, fit neither. I'm guessing you don't really understand the basic concept of atheism, which is a singular, personal state of mind regarding one concept. It's nothing more, nothing less. You seem to think it involves some sort of "groupthink", just as a religion invariably does.

And regardless of what you think about other members' tone, you sometimes post in a fairly confrontational manner yourself, as per:

You're either lying, or you're willfully ignorant...
You don't even know what you're talking about...
But you obviously didn't even read the page you linked...
Is this really the level of deep critical thought I'm dealing with?
As this is the level of intellect I'm dealing with, I don't think it's worth my time debating this with you...
You're also being deliberately dishonest...
The unqualified fundy type atheists...


Quote:What I really need to find is an online community that is more accepting, where I can post and discuss things that interest me without facing constant personal attacks, that I can feel a proper valued part of, and I don't think that's TTA. If anyone has suggestions for me please post here.

Obviously TTA is not the forum for you mate. And I'm guessing that if you wanna find another forum that's all "touchy-feely" and agrees with everything you say, then you're gonna be old and grey by the time you do LOL. And you're obviously oversensitive if you regard the handful of mild insults I could find as "facing constant personal attacks".

I'm also getting a strong feeling that you haven't yet fully thrown off the yoke of Christianity—judging by your insistent harping that Jesus did in fact exist post-resurrection, and as portrayed.

Academic Kenneth Humphreys debunks (in part) the notion that Jesus existed on his site; Jesus Never Existed.

You also seem to be consistently overly defensive about supporting the myths and fairy story that you once totally believed in, and for this reason alone I'm guessing you're an agnostic—rather than an atheist? And if you are an agnostic—and one who leans towards the beliefs of theism—then I can understand why you feel less than happy posting on an atheist site.

—Whatever, I'll wish you well on your cyber-journey. Smile

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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12-05-2017, 02:05 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 02:11 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: I may not be back for some time
(11-05-2017 10:12 PM)Aractus Wrote:  
(11-05-2017 09:08 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Right. Slurring everyone, for disagreeing with you, in your own thread complaining about being slurred because people disagree with you. There is no fundamentalism here. I don't even know what you're talking about. Well, we might have a few fundamentalist theists.

It's not meant to be a slur or attack. It's an observation - perhaps an imperfect one, perhaps an incomplete one, perhaps a completely wrong one. You can call it in-group bias or whatever you want, I call it fundamentalism. I'm in the out-group, people in the out-group see the in-group differently; just as you would see my in-group differently from the perspective of the out-group. People are protective of their in-groups like culture for example, and that's fine, but it doesn't make their culture any better than another person's.

We're a group of random atheists who have met on a forum, with a few theists too. I don't know what on Earth makes you think there is an in-group and an out-group. I have literally no idea what you're talking about. Groups of what? What culture? Fundamental about what?

You say it's not a slur, but you're implying there is something wrong with people who disagree with you. You don't seem to want to consider that problems may be coming from you. You seem extremely paranoid. If you want a place where you can bash people who disagree with you and they can't/won't push back, then you're out of luck. You won't find that anywhere.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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12-05-2017, 02:19 AM
RE: I may not be back for some time
I say let's stop pussy-footing around. People who *need* to demonize those who disagree with themselves as "fundamentalists", (cuz that's supposed to be some sort of insult), or say the positions of those who disagree with them are the same as Holocaust Deniers, ((no matter who says that, including Ehrman, who BTW exhibits a scary anger many times towards those who disagree with him), or having some sort of "group think" because a bunch of random people who never even talk to each other happen to think their views are nuts, after totally different reasons why they are nuts have been given by those people, are nothing but raving paranoids. They can't stand it that anyone has the "audacity" to tell them they're full of shit. Obviously they live in some sort of bubble where that never happens. Let's hope "some time" is one "long time". We can get the Sunday School version of Christian group think (see how that works) from any dime store Sunday School.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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12-05-2017, 02:28 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 02:33 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: I may not be back for some time
I'm rather concerned that he's basing people's entire value and character on what they think about Jesus.

Anyone who goes around the forum as a whole will see us disagreeing with each other on almost everything. For example, I'm vegan (unpopular) and I think humans are scum and we'd be better off all dead (unpopular). I think having children is morally questionable (unpopular). I don't expect people to agree with me, and if I present my views and my arguments, I expect them to be discussed. We're always twatting each other about the head regarding how subjective morality is, whether or not you should execute people and so forth. It's not all about Jesus. He's a real non-factor. Just some crazy preacher who may or may not have existed. This all sounds like the theist view that atheists are "all the same", because they only discuss religious stuff with us and don't spend time on other subjects. It's not surprising that atheists are going to be unimpressed with religious texts, is it?

So what I'm saying is get out more. Talk about other stuff as well. And don't be defensive all the time.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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12-05-2017, 04:37 AM
RE: I may not be back for some time
I hope you can find an online community that's a good fit for you. If not, we're always here if you want some full-throated discussions. I don't have any site to recommend, but my guess is that you might find some compatible people in a site that's geared to liberal mainline Christians (Episcopalians, Anglicans, Unitarians).

This is still a support thread. Play nice.
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12-05-2017, 06:37 AM
RE: I may not be back for some time
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12-05-2017, 06:54 AM
RE: I may not be back for some time
TTA is what you make it. If you only want to talk about one topic, you will soon get bored. If you find some things in common with some others, you'll find community.

I am sorry you didn't find what you came looking for, and I hope you succeed in your quest.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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12-05-2017, 07:21 AM
RE: I may not be back for some time
(12-05-2017 02:28 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I'm rather concerned that he's basing people's entire value and character on what they think about Jesus.

Anyone who goes around the forum as a whole will see us disagreeing with each other on almost everything. For example, I'm vegan (unpopular) and I think humans are scum and we'd be better off all dead (unpopular). I think having children is morally questionable (unpopular). I don't expect people to agree with me, and if I present my views and my arguments, I expect them to be discussed. We're always twatting each other about the head regarding how subjective morality is, whether or not you should execute people and so forth. It's not all about Jesus. He's a real non-factor. Just some crazy preacher who may or may not have existed. This all sounds like the theist view that atheists are "all the same", because they only discuss religious stuff with us and don't spend time on other subjects. It's not surprising that atheists are going to be unimpressed with religious texts, is it?

So what I'm saying is get out more. Talk about other stuff as well. And don't be defensive all the time.

Yes, also vegan and the antichrist of meat eating. Tongue For me, I stay out of the meat-vegan debate threads now because things can sometimes get heated and hurtful. I think like Rob suggested, hanging out in other threads and staying out of threads that will not be a positive experience for you is great advice. That way you can still enjoy all that TTA has to offer and continue to connect with a great community.
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12-05-2017, 07:21 AM
RE: I may not be back for some time
Cheers Aractus.

I found you to be a little bit nuts but interesting. I'm surprised you're leaving. As others have said, you've not exactly held back yourself. Sure, some of us will disagree rather violently with others. Sometimes we go overboard and make unjustified allegations of bullshittery, but it usually gets pegged back in line.

I do think there's somewhat of an in-group / out-group here. Basically, those of us who've been around a while, we all know each other, we remember the jokes from way back, we might just like each other's posts for the simple reason that we like the person, and if someone argues with one of our mates we might not look before we leap. That's kind of natural. We can't exactlly help that.

For all that I don't think we're that unwelcoming either. Everyone can express their view. We don't suppress people's opinions. People who hold unpopular positions get a fair amount of stick but that's just it - if 99 people out of 100 disagree with you over X, then you're gonna get 99 negative replies. It doesn't mean you can't hold your unpopular opinion, but you mustn't be surprised if you get a bit piled on. Also people who are well liked quickly become part of our community. About the only way you remain an outsider is if a. you're a dick (which I don't think you are) or b. you don't post very often and nobody really knows you.

And of course we all take pride in our much vaunted ability to change our minds "on presentation of sufficient evidence". Mind you, I've rarely seen it happen in myself or others, but it does happen.

We'll leave a light on for you.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-05-2017, 08:06 AM
RE: I may not be back for some time
When you feel strongly about something, it is very difficult not to be insulting and/or dismissive when discussing it with someone who disagrees. I'm not pointing any fingers here -- we all struggle with this to varying degrees. I make a conscious effort to avoid this behavior, and it's still a struggle.

Aractus, best of luck to you wherever you go. I hope you find a more amenable place.
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