I need a new greeting animal
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-07-2014, 07:49 PM
RE: I need a new greeting animal
(29-07-2014 07:42 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(29-07-2014 07:36 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  "When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a moray"...not an eel.

Dude a moray is an eelDodgy

Twice in one thread....FacepalmFacepalm

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2014, 08:55 PM
RE: I need a new greeting animal
(29-07-2014 07:42 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(29-07-2014 07:36 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  "When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a moray"...not an eel.

Dude a moray is an eelDodgy

Nope my young biologist. Eels have pectoral and ventral fins while Morays do not. The Moray's dorsal, ventral and anal fins form a continuous fin that encircles the tail and continues midway down their belly, something Eels do not have.

A third related family the Conger eels also have this continuous fin but also have pectoral fins.

Morays belong to the Muraenidae family
Eels to the Ophichthidae family
Congers to the Congridae family

Similar, yes, but it is inaccurate to say a Moray is an Eel. Thus endeth today's fishy lesson. Tongue

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Full Circle's post
31-07-2014, 09:33 PM (This post was last modified: 31-07-2014 09:45 PM by Metazoa Zeke.)
RE: I need a new greeting animal
(31-07-2014 08:55 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(29-07-2014 07:42 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Dude a moray is an eelDodgy

Nope my young biologist. Eels have pectoral and ventral fins while Morays do not. The Moray's dorsal, ventral and anal fins form a continuous fin that encircles the tail and continues midway down their belly, something Eels do not have.

A third related family the Conger eels also have this continuous fin but also have pectoral fins.

Morays belong to the Muraenidae family
Eels to the Ophichthidae family
Congers to the Congridae family

Similar, yes, but it is inaccurate to say a Moray is an Eel. Thus endeth today's fishy lesson. Tongue

Morays are in the order Anguilligormes, which in turn are eels.

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/ac...ification/

http://cfcc.edu/faculty/jdegan/courses/m...aulids.pdf

http://www.marinespecies.org/aphia.php?p...s&id=10295

Saying that morays are not eels are like saying humans are not like primates. Let me set an example.

Cercopithecidae, Cheirogalidae, and hominidae are all primates, however they are different. Each primate is a different family within the order. However one would not call one not a primate, even though it is classified in that order. Same with the eels. All of the families you listed are eels but are in different families.

Even some of the structure of the moray eel is different than a sterotypical eel still does not cut it from it not being an eel. Back to the primate thing but let us focus on apes. Humans are apes, however the differ from other apes in the fact that our bone structure, are ability to climb trees are different, and the fact that we walk bipedal in a normal every day fashion. However humans are still apes in the fact they share the rest of the structure with apes, same with morays.

Now let us look at the traits our anguilliforme(eel) friends have.

"They possess no pelvic fins, and many species also lack pectoral fins. The dorsal and anal fins are fused with the caudal fin, forming a single ribbon running along much of the length of the animal."

"Most eels live in the shallow waters of the ocean and burrow into sand, mud, or amongst rocks. A majority of eel species are nocturnal, thus are rarely seen. Sometimes, they are seen living together in holes, or "eel pits". Some species of eels also live in deeper water on the continental shelves and over the slopes deep as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Only members of the Anguilla regularly inhabit fresh water, but they, too, return to the sea to breed."

"Eels begin life as flat and transparent larvae, or leptocephali. Eel larvae drift in the surface waters of the sea, feeding on marine snow, small particles that float in the water. Eel larvae then metamorphose into glass eels and then become elvers before finally seeking out their juvenile and adult habitats. Freshwater elvers travel upstream and are forced to climb up obstructions, such as weirs, dam walls, and natural waterfalls. Lady Colin Campbell found, at Ballisodare, the eel fisheries were greatly improved by the hanging of loosely plaited grass ladders over barriers, enabling the elvers to ascend."

Now let us see what you called a eel vs the moray which you say is not an eel.

Here is a rice-paddy eel, a eel in the family ophichthidae:

[Image: 220px-Pisodonophisboro.jpg]

and here is a moray:

[Image: morayeel.jpg]

These eels are similar in shape, the difference being the fins, as the rice paddy eel has pectoral fins while the moray does not.

To add you never grow out of evolutionary ancestor. No different then how humans are in the subclass theria, morays are in the order we commonly call eels. That is my lesson.

EDIT: However I forgot to mention, there is one animal called eel that is not an eel, and that is the electric eel, however they are in turn knife fish, the order gymnotiformes

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Metazoa Zeke's post
01-08-2014, 10:33 AM
RE: I need a new greeting animal
(31-07-2014 08:55 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(29-07-2014 07:42 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Dude a moray is an eelDodgy

Nope my young biologist. Eels have pectoral and ventral fins while Morays do not. The Moray's dorsal, ventral and anal fins form a continuous fin that encircles the tail and continues midway down their belly, something Eels do not have.

A third related family the Conger eels also have this continuous fin but also have pectoral fins.

Morays belong to the Muraenidae family
Eels to the Ophichthidae family
Congers to the Congridae family

Similar, yes, but it is inaccurate to say a Moray is an Eel. Thus endeth today's fishy lesson. Tongue

Lesson 1: Zeke is never wrong about animals.
Lesson 2: If Zeke is wrong about animals, refer to Lesson 1.

Atir aissom atir imon
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Im_Ryan's post
03-08-2014, 08:21 PM
RE: I need a new greeting animal
(31-07-2014 09:33 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(31-07-2014 08:55 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Nope my young biologist. Eels have pectoral and ventral fins while Morays do not. The Moray's dorsal, ventral and anal fins form a continuous fin that encircles the tail and continues midway down their belly, something Eels do not have.

A third related family the Conger eels also have this continuous fin but also have pectoral fins.

Morays belong to the Muraenidae family
Eels to the Ophichthidae family
Congers to the Congridae family

Similar, yes, but it is inaccurate to say a Moray is an Eel. Thus endeth today's fishy lesson. Tongue

Morays are in the order Anguilligormes, which in turn are eels.

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/ac...ification/

http://cfcc.edu/faculty/jdegan/courses/m...aulids.pdf

http://www.marinespecies.org/aphia.php?p...s&id=10295

Saying that morays are not eels are like saying humans are not like primates. Let me set an example.

Cercopithecidae, Cheirogalidae, and hominidae are all primates, however they are different. Each primate is a different family within the order. However one would not call one not a primate, even though it is classified in that order. Same with the eels. All of the families you listed are eels but are in different families.

Even some of the structure of the moray eel is different than a sterotypical eel still does not cut it from it not being an eel. Back to the primate thing but let us focus on apes. Humans are apes, however the differ from other apes in the fact that our bone structure, are ability to climb trees are different, and the fact that we walk bipedal in a normal every day fashion. However humans are still apes in the fact they share the rest of the structure with apes, same with morays.

Now let us look at the traits our anguilliforme(eel) friends have.

"They possess no pelvic fins, and many species also lack pectoral fins. The dorsal and anal fins are fused with the caudal fin, forming a single ribbon running along much of the length of the animal."

"Most eels live in the shallow waters of the ocean and burrow into sand, mud, or amongst rocks. A majority of eel species are nocturnal, thus are rarely seen. Sometimes, they are seen living together in holes, or "eel pits". Some species of eels also live in deeper water on the continental shelves and over the slopes deep as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Only members of the Anguilla regularly inhabit fresh water, but they, too, return to the sea to breed."

"Eels begin life as flat and transparent larvae, or leptocephali. Eel larvae drift in the surface waters of the sea, feeding on marine snow, small particles that float in the water. Eel larvae then metamorphose into glass eels and then become elvers before finally seeking out their juvenile and adult habitats. Freshwater elvers travel upstream and are forced to climb up obstructions, such as weirs, dam walls, and natural waterfalls. Lady Colin Campbell found, at Ballisodare, the eel fisheries were greatly improved by the hanging of loosely plaited grass ladders over barriers, enabling the elvers to ascend."

Now let us see what you called a eel vs the moray which you say is not an eel.

Here is a rice-paddy eel, a eel in the family ophichthidae:

[Image: 220px-Pisodonophisboro.jpg]

and here is a moray:

[Image: morayeel.jpg]

These eels are similar in shape, the difference being the fins, as the rice paddy eel has pectoral fins while the moray does not.

To add you never grow out of evolutionary ancestor. No different then how humans are in the subclass theria, morays are in the order we commonly call eels. That is my lesson.

EDIT: However I forgot to mention, there is one animal called eel that is not an eel, and that is the electric eel, however they are in turn knife fish, the order gymnotiformes

I suppose you could go back along the evolutionary tree and correctly say primates and anguilliformes are chordates (Of the more than 75,000 living species of chordates, about half are bony fish of the class Osteichthyes. Both the world's largest and fastest animal, the blue whale and peregrine falcon, respectively, are chordates, as are humans) but is this really how you want to play the game?

My point is that the last twig of the branch of the tree that is anguilliformes has been broken down further into the following genus; Morays belonging to the Muraenidae family Eels to the Ophichthidae family and Congers to the Congridae family. From there you go into species. You can call a moray an eel if you like but you aren't being as precise as you could be. I prefer to be precise.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-08-2014, 05:03 AM
RE: I need a new greeting animal
(03-08-2014 08:21 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(31-07-2014 09:33 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Morays are in the order Anguilligormes, which in turn are eels.

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/ac...ification/

http://cfcc.edu/faculty/jdegan/courses/m...aulids.pdf

http://www.marinespecies.org/aphia.php?p...s&id=10295

Saying that morays are not eels are like saying humans are not like primates. Let me set an example.

Cercopithecidae, Cheirogalidae, and hominidae are all primates, however they are different. Each primate is a different family within the order. However one would not call one not a primate, even though it is classified in that order. Same with the eels. All of the families you listed are eels but are in different families.

Even some of the structure of the moray eel is different than a sterotypical eel still does not cut it from it not being an eel. Back to the primate thing but let us focus on apes. Humans are apes, however the differ from other apes in the fact that our bone structure, are ability to climb trees are different, and the fact that we walk bipedal in a normal every day fashion. However humans are still apes in the fact they share the rest of the structure with apes, same with morays.

Now let us look at the traits our anguilliforme(eel) friends have.

"They possess no pelvic fins, and many species also lack pectoral fins. The dorsal and anal fins are fused with the caudal fin, forming a single ribbon running along much of the length of the animal."

"Most eels live in the shallow waters of the ocean and burrow into sand, mud, or amongst rocks. A majority of eel species are nocturnal, thus are rarely seen. Sometimes, they are seen living together in holes, or "eel pits". Some species of eels also live in deeper water on the continental shelves and over the slopes deep as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Only members of the Anguilla regularly inhabit fresh water, but they, too, return to the sea to breed."

"Eels begin life as flat and transparent larvae, or leptocephali. Eel larvae drift in the surface waters of the sea, feeding on marine snow, small particles that float in the water. Eel larvae then metamorphose into glass eels and then become elvers before finally seeking out their juvenile and adult habitats. Freshwater elvers travel upstream and are forced to climb up obstructions, such as weirs, dam walls, and natural waterfalls. Lady Colin Campbell found, at Ballisodare, the eel fisheries were greatly improved by the hanging of loosely plaited grass ladders over barriers, enabling the elvers to ascend."

Now let us see what you called a eel vs the moray which you say is not an eel.

Here is a rice-paddy eel, a eel in the family ophichthidae:

[Image: 220px-Pisodonophisboro.jpg]

and here is a moray:

[Image: morayeel.jpg]

These eels are similar in shape, the difference being the fins, as the rice paddy eel has pectoral fins while the moray does not.

To add you never grow out of evolutionary ancestor. No different then how humans are in the subclass theria, morays are in the order we commonly call eels. That is my lesson.

EDIT: However I forgot to mention, there is one animal called eel that is not an eel, and that is the electric eel, however they are in turn knife fish, the order gymnotiformes

I suppose you could go back along the evolutionary tree and correctly say primates and anguilliformes are chordates (Of the more than 75,000 living species of chordates, about half are bony fish of the class Osteichthyes. Both the world's largest and fastest animal, the blue whale and peregrine falcon, respectively, are chordates, as are humans) but is this really how you want to play the game?

My point is that the last twig of the branch of the tree that is anguilliformes has been broken down further into the following genus; Morays belonging to the Muraenidae family Eels to the Ophichthidae family and Congers to the Congridae family. From there you go into species. You can call a moray an eel if you like but you aren't being as precise as you could be. I prefer to be precise.

But eel is not a single family it is an entire order.

Ophichthidae are called snake eels

If you type in the word eel it will come up as the order Anguilliformes, it never once does it say eels are only ophichthidae. What source did you get that information from? I forgot to ask this earlier.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-08-2014, 09:10 PM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2014 09:20 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: I need a new greeting animal
(04-08-2014 05:03 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 08:21 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I suppose you could go back along the evolutionary tree and correctly say primates and anguilliformes are chordates (Of the more than 75,000 living species of chordates, about half are bony fish of the class Osteichthyes. Both the world's largest and fastest animal, the blue whale and peregrine falcon, respectively, are chordates, as are humans) but is this really how you want to play the game?

My point is that the last twig of the branch of the tree that is anguilliformes has been broken down further into the following genus; Morays belonging to the Muraenidae family Eels to the Ophichthidae family and Congers to the Congridae family. From there you go into species. You can call a moray an eel if you like but you aren't being as precise as you could be. I prefer to be precise.

But eel is not a single family it is an entire order.

Ophichthidae are called snake eels

If you type in the word eel it will come up as the order Anguilliformes, it never once does it say eels are only ophichthidae. What source did you get that information from? I forgot to ask this earlier.

Fair question. I mostly use the classifications from the California Academy of Sciences or CAS.

For Ophichthidae genera
http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/re...atmain.asp

For Muraenidae genera
http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/re...atmain.asp

For Congridae genera
http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/re...atmain.asp

I commend you on your knowledge and insight and you are not incorrect in the greater sense, I am simply making a further distinction along the family tree of these fish.

Edit: for some reasons the hyperlinks aren't taking you to the page I wanted you to see. Click on Genera and type in each family (i.e. Ophichthidae) and you will see what species fall under which genera.

You can also click search by "family/subfamily" and enter "Ophichthidae"
Anguilliformes
Protanguillidae 1 1 1
Anguillidae 134 18 2
Heterenchelyidae 10 8 0
Moringuidae 46 15 0
Chlopsidae 26 22 0
Myrocongridae 5 5 1
Muraenidae 515 198 13
Uropterygiinae 60 36 4
Muraeninae 449 162 9
Synaphobranchidae 64 39 2
Ilyophinae 32 26 0
Synaphobranchinae 28 12 2
Simenchelyinae 4 1 0
Ophichthidae 565 322 33
Myrophinae 101 64 9
Ophichthinae 458 258 24
Colocongridae 10 10 0
Congridae 340 197 7
Congrinae 192 113 6
Bathymyrinae 92 50 0
Heterocongrinae 42 34 1
Muraenesocidae 40 15 0
Derichthyidae 7 3 0
Nemichthyidae 31 9 0
Serrivomeridae 22 10 0
Nettastomatidae 53 43

Doesn't copy/paste well, you'll have to go there Zeke. Let me know what you think.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-08-2014, 04:35 AM
RE: I need a new greeting animal
(04-08-2014 09:10 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(04-08-2014 05:03 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  But eel is not a single family it is an entire order.

Ophichthidae are called snake eels

If you type in the word eel it will come up as the order Anguilliformes, it never once does it say eels are only ophichthidae. What source did you get that information from? I forgot to ask this earlier.

Fair question. I mostly use the classifications from the California Academy of Sciences or CAS.

For Ophichthidae genera
http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/re...atmain.asp

For Muraenidae genera
http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/re...atmain.asp

For Congridae genera
http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/re...atmain.asp

I commend you on your knowledge and insight and you are not incorrect in the greater sense, I am simply making a further distinction along the family tree of these fish.

Edit: for some reasons the hyperlinks aren't taking you to the page I wanted you to see. Click on Genera and type in each family (i.e. Ophichthidae) and you will see what species fall under which genera.

You can also click search by "family/subfamily" and enter "Ophichthidae"
Anguilliformes
Protanguillidae 1 1 1
Anguillidae 134 18 2
Heterenchelyidae 10 8 0
Moringuidae 46 15 0
Chlopsidae 26 22 0
Myrocongridae 5 5 1
Muraenidae 515 198 13
Uropterygiinae 60 36 4
Muraeninae 449 162 9
Synaphobranchidae 64 39 2
Ilyophinae 32 26 0
Synaphobranchinae 28 12 2
Simenchelyinae 4 1 0
Ophichthidae 565 322 33
Myrophinae 101 64 9
Ophichthinae 458 258 24
Colocongridae 10 10 0
Congridae 340 197 7
Congrinae 192 113 6
Bathymyrinae 92 50 0
Heterocongrinae 42 34 1
Muraenesocidae 40 15 0
Derichthyidae 7 3 0
Nemichthyidae 31 9 0
Serrivomeridae 22 10 0
Nettastomatidae 53 43

Doesn't copy/paste well, you'll have to go there Zeke. Let me know what you think.

So I got on the website and here is what I got. When I first typed in eel in species I got these eels:

Allocyttus folletti(this was not even an eel but an oreo, yeah that is right oreo is not just a cookie anymore it is a fish.)

Leptocephalus giganteus

Catostomus humboldtianus(also not an eel)

Tilurus rissoi

This was for species for genera I got:

Ophichthus, these are just one genera in the snake eel family.

However when I went to family and subfamily I clicked on Muraenidae and it went to
Anguilliformes when I clicked on Ophichthidae and it went to Anguilliformes as well. The reason why I mention this is because like I said that all eels are in the order anguilliformes. Even the website shows that they are both with anguilliformes which proves the claim I made earlier.

http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/re...asp#Table2

Animals that are called eel but are not are the electric eel,spiny eel, and wolf eels.

http://www.skullsunlimited.com/record_order.php?id=51

http://www.fishesofaustralia.net.au/home/order/2

Just a few more sources to show anguilliformes are eels.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2014, 08:01 AM (This post was last modified: 06-08-2014 08:12 AM by Full Circle.)
RE: I need a new greeting animal
(05-08-2014 04:35 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Just a few more sources to show anguilliformes are eels.

Zeke, your point is taken but as I said before, I am making a further distinction. This is a good example of why using common names vs scientific names can be confusing and/or misleading even in scientific papers. Below you can see that in one paragraph it says "Morays are small to very large eels" and a few sentences later "Few eels are likely to be confused with morays" (bolding mine). So, if even Dr. E.B. Böhlke, guru of fishes, is inconsistent with his references you can see why you and I are having this discussion Smile, that by the way, I'm enjoying greatly.

For my purposes, when discussing anguilliformes, I always make the distinction between the "eel" families as I stated in the first response (i.e. eels, morays and congers). If the common name of Gymnothorax funebris is the Green moray, it would be confusing to call it a "Green eel". Since only a handful of people (you among them) would even care enough to know that G. funebris is the scientific name of the commonly called Green moray, a member of the anguilliformes/subfamily Muraenidae. Therefore I am left with having to say, for the purposes of expediency, that G. funebris is a moray (when the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie... Smile ).

My learning from all of this is that I need to know my audience better. Next time you and I discuss Fishes I'll remember that you are not a layman.

Cheers,
~FC


This from Zootaxa, page 700:
FAO SPECIES IDENTIFICATION GUIDE FOR FISHERY PURPOSES and AMERICAN SOCIETY OF ICHTHYOLOGISTS AND HERPETOLOGISTS SPECIAL PUBLICATION No. 5 THE LIVING MARINE RESOURCES OF THE WESTERN CENTRAL ATLANTIC VOLUME 2 Bony fishes part 1 (Acipenseridae to Grammatidae) edited by Kent E. Carpenter Department of Biological Sciences Old Dominion University Norfolk, Virginia, USA

MURAENIDAE
Moray eels by E.B. Böhlke (deceased), Academy of Natural Sciences, Pennsylvania, USA proofs checked by D.G. Smith, National Museum of Natural History, Washington, D.C., USA Diagnostic characters: Body elongate, muscular, and laterally compressed. Dorsal profile of head above and behind eye often raised due to the development of strong head muscles. Eye well developed, above and near midgape. Snout short to elongate. Anterior nostril tubular, near tip of snout;posterior nostril above or before eye, a simple pore or in a tube. Mouth large, gape usually extending behind posterior margin of eye, lips without flanges. Teeth numerous and strong, with smooth or serrate margins, ranging from blunt rounded molars to long, slender, sharply pointed, and sometimes depressible canines; jaws short to elongate, usually about equal. On upper jaw, intermaxillary (anterior) teeth in 1 or 2 peripheral rows and usu-ally a median row of 1 to 3 teeth which are the longest in the mouth (sometimes missing in large specimens);maxillary (lateral) teeth in 1 or 2 rows on side of jaws; vomerine teeth (on roof of mouth) usually short and small,in 1 or 2 rows or in a patch, or sometimes absent. Dentary (lower jaw) teeth in 1 or more rows; in many species in the subfamily Muraeninae the first 4 teeth are larger, sometimes forming a short inner row. Gill opening asmall round hole or slit at midside. Dorsal and anal fins variously developed, from long fins with dorsal finusually beginning on head and anal fin immediately behind anus (subfamily Muraeninae), to both fins restricted to tail tip (subfamily Uropterygiinae); dorsal and anal fins continuous with caudal fin around tail tip;pectoral and pelvic fins absent. Scales absent. Lateral-line pores absent on body except for a few (usually 1 or 2) above and before gill opening; head pores usually 3 near tip of snout, 4 along upper jaw, and 6 on lower jaw; no pores behind eye or in supratemporal commissure. Colour:variable, from nearly uniform to distinctive patterns of spots, blotches, bars, and/or reticulations.

Habitat, biology, and fisheries: Morays are small to very large eels (to 375 cm total length) inhabiting tropicaland subtropical waters. Many are found in shallow-water rock and coral reef habitats, where they find protection in holes and crevices; others live above sand or mud bottoms at depths to 500 m; a few species are found in brackish-water tidal creeks, mangrove areas, or in rivers. They are scavengers and predators, feeding on fish or crustaceans. If provoked or handled carelessly, their powerful jaws and strong teeth will cause deep lacerations, but usually they do not leave their hiding places to attack swimmers. Morays are caught by spear,hook-and-line or longlines, traps, trawls, and occasionally by dredge. They are not sought commercially, butmay be incidentally caught and sold in fish markets. They are eaten in many parts of the world, some locally inthe area; consumption of morays 4 kg or larger may result in ciguatera poisoning, which is sometimes fatal. Remarks: The species of morays in the Atlantic are well known, but the generic nomenclature for the family is not established. The generic classification used by Böhlke et al. (1989) is followed for these accounts. Similar families occurring in the area. Few eels are likely to be confused with morays. The combination of elevated head profile, high posterior nostril, lack of pectoral fins, and reduced lateral line is not found in any other family. Chlopsidae (formerly Xenocongridae): superficially similar to morays, but posterior nostril below mideye level or on lip ratherthan above eye; pectoral fins sometimes present; vomerinetooth series widely divergent (except Catesbya) rather than along midline. Myrocongridae: similar in appearance to morays but pectoral fins present. Ophichthidae: somewhat similar in appearance, but posterior nostril always low on side of head, on lip, oropening inside mouth; pectoral fins usually present, caudal fin absent in most.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2014, 11:20 AM
RE: I need a new greeting animal
(06-08-2014 08:01 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Zeke, your point is taken but as I said before, I am making a further distinction. This is a good example of why using common names vs scientific names can be confusing and/or misleading even in scientific papers. Below you can see that in one paragraph it says "Morays are small to very large eels" and a few sentences later "Few eels are likely to be confused with morays" (bolding mine). So, if even Dr. E.B. Böhlke, guru of fishes, is inconsistent with his references you can see why you and I are having this discussion Smile, that by the way, I'm enjoying greatly.

At least I am entertaining Laugh out load
I understand the trouble with names but in turn those names are by consensus. Even then as shown by my sources above that eels are classified at the an order. Now if you said that morays were different from other eels, that would be fine, but you said morays were not eels. If you meant that morays are different then other eels, then I just shot my self in the foot, seeing as I could not understand that.

(06-08-2014 08:01 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  For my purposes, when discussing anguilliformes, I always make the distinction between the "eel" families as I stated in the first response (i.e. eels, morays and congers). If the common name of Gymnothorax funebris is the Green moray, it would be confusing to call it a "Green eel". Since only a handful of people (you among them) would even care enough to know that G. funebris is the scientific name of the commonly called Green moray, a member of the anguilliformes/subfamily Muraenidae.


I know but I was addressing the morays are not eels claim. The thing is that when I brought up the family none were called just eel. they were called snake eels, conger eels, and moray eels. And just because calling the green moray a green eel is weird is because

A) that is no different then calling saying a budgerigar is not a member of psittacines because saying little parrot would be confusing. It is not the naming the truly matters but the anatomical structures and how they can be placed on the phyologenetic tree.

B) It is already called the green moray, and many people place moray in front of eel when talking about the whole family.



(06-08-2014 08:01 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Morays are small to very large eels

Budgerigars are small to very large parrots

You see we all know budgerigars are parrots, but the line here is not saying morays are not eels. It is comparing the size of morays to other eels, not saying they are not eels in general. The reason he puts it like that is to distinguish morays from other eels. As I said before it is to place morays on size compared to other eels.

(06-08-2014 08:01 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Few eels are likely to be confused with morays.

A few cockatoos are likely to be confused for macaws

This is not saying morays are not eels but that some eels can be confused for morays. This is why I bring up this example. Some cockatoos like the carnaby's black cockatoo can be mistaken for a macaw, however they are both still in the order Psittaciformes. My point is that confusing two animals for each other does not mean they are not in the same classification. What do I mean? I mean that just because a few eels are confused for morays does not equal morays are not eels. There is in fact a family called chlopisidae which are known as false morays. I will say again saying a few eels are confused for morays does not equal morays are not eels.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: