I need an appropriate answer to this (evolution)
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02-09-2013, 10:45 AM
RE: I need an appropriate answer to this (evolution)
"no, but do you know any case of new species being created which is observable?"

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02-09-2013, 11:47 PM
RE: I need an appropriate answer to this (evolution)
Potholer54 explains ring species in under 4 minutes.

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04-09-2013, 08:26 PM
RE: I need an appropriate answer to this (evolution)
(02-09-2013 08:15 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  "Do you know of any case of a mutation from one species to another which is observable?"

Even though I have explained that evolution does not happen overnight, he insists with this. I need an appropriate example to answer with, in the form of "no, but do you know any case of ...... which is observable?"

In short, I need something that is not directly observable but is an undisputed fact. Before this, I told him things like "I can't see electricity, but that doesn't mean I have no electric power in my home".

How does he know that his parents are his biological parents? Did he observe his birth?

How does he know that his birth was the result of his parents sexual intercourse and not just them kissing? Did he observe the act of the egg meeting the sperm, perhaps it was the mixing of saliva that does it.

The answer is that there were lots of tests by lots scientists that were verified many times over by more scientists to reproduce the same results. That is why I trust the results, no one test/person/experiment is proof or is infallible, but the more tests that are done the more sure I can be.

If he doesn't trust the scientists' results then he is welcome to create his own tests by sticking different body parts into other peoples' different parts hundreds/thousands of times over (with their consent of course) until he verifies or nullifies their work.

Although...I don't think I can believe that he is the product of his parent's "bonding" until I have observed it myself. Wink

"I am a knowledgeable man, I have knowledge. If I knew how I knew what I know, I would know half as much, because it would be clogged up with where I knew it from...that is why I cannot always cite my sources. - David Mitchell
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10-09-2013, 10:23 AM
RE: I need an appropriate answer to this (evolution)
You might as well not bother debating with him. You've explained the fact that evolution doesn't happen like that, he thinks it should... and so you're caught in an endless cycle of bollocks.

Any example of evolution happening on a scale that we can observe directly he will claim it to be micro-evolution and not macro-evolution. Creationists refuse to understand that micro and macro-evolution are one and the same, and time is the only difference between them.

There are plenty of sound facts about the universe that most creationists accept, yet for which we have no direct observational proof. As you pointed out, electricity is one.

The Solar System is one of my favorites. The Heliocentric model is "just a theory", nobody has ever gone up in a spacecraft to look down on the solar system and watch the planets move in order to confirm it. But the theory fits the observations we can make from our perspective.

Here on earth, our perspective is limited due to our orbital position, and so it's taken centuries of astronomers making detailed observations and calculations to determine that we are in fact, not at the center of the solar system. Nicolaus Copernicus, Galileo Galilei, Isaac Newton and Johannes Kepler all dedicated their lives to understanding it... and now we have a model which perfectly fits the observations made from our somewhat disadvantaged position.

Evolution is the same... just as we cannot see the solar system from above, we are at the disadvantaged position of being at the tail end of our evolution and having relatively short lives.



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10-09-2013, 10:47 AM
RE: I need an appropriate answer to this (evolution)
Evolution posits "common ancestry".
Not "species turning into another species".
Anyone who asks for evidence of "one species turning into another" does not get Evolution.

But what's the point. Religion is about a relationship with a deity. What have these two things to do with the other ?
Does he stop "relating" to a pink unicorn if it can be shown the Theory of Evolution is or is not true ?

A giant non-sequitur.

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18-09-2013, 06:00 PM (This post was last modified: 18-09-2013 06:13 PM by NoSkyDaddy.)
RE: I need an appropriate answer to this (evolution)
Part of the misconception is that evolution is a result, not a process. Reproduction is a process. With reproduction you get genetic variation. Natural selection, another process, determines which variants survive to breed. The process of sexual selection then begins, determining which variants successfully breed and the cycle starts anew. There is also a principle called "the economy of biology" which in short states that all adaptations have a cost and those costs cannot exceed an individuals resources. I.E. increases in speed, brainpower, etc., come at a cost thereby reducing available resources for other traits, body mass, armored carapaces, etc and vice versa. These are just some of the known factors acting on the genome of species. The accumulation of small genotypical (genetic) changes over thousands or millions of generations can, but, does not necessarily lead to large scale phenotypical (body plan) differences. This is a result. We call it evolution.

Your friend is asking you to show an example of one species "magically" turning into another. Evolution is not based on magic. It is the result of variations accumulated over thousands or millions of generations within a species.

I hope this is helpful. Thumbsup
*edit*Note: Sexual selection obviously applies only to species that reproduce sexually and have the ability to choose their mates.

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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01-10-2013, 08:52 AM
RE: I need an appropriate answer to this (evolution)
asking you to provide observable evidence of a bird turning into a whale only serves to prove that he does not understand macro time scales. You could also ask Him to show you evidence of a human living in the belly of a "whale" for any amount of time... I find it ironically funny that they demand so much quantifiable evidence to fill in the gaps of their own ignorance yet they base their entire lives faith. you can always ask, why don't you demand this level of evidence for your own beliefs?

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