I need help - How many Muslims are fundamentalists?
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07-03-2015, 12:22 AM
RE: I need help - How many Muslims are fundamentalists?
(06-03-2015 07:09 PM)Blackout Wrote:  I really need to know this. Basically my girlfriend hates Islam (for obvious reasons) and she is in a class about multiculturalism, so her professor accused her of being Islamophobic because she showed dislike towards the religion of Islam and the consequences attached to it. He proceeded to tell her that Muslim fundies are only 0.1% of the population of Muslims. He also told her that discriminating based on religion is equally bad as discriminating based on race or gender (forgetting that people do choose religion but not things like race)

I have doubts that fundies are so little in number. She needs to prove him wrong, obviously - So, can anyone tell me where to find sources? Anything will help

I'm not sure about this but I think he got the sources from the council that deals with Muslims' human rights issues, so I doubt it's reliable.

Ask him to define Islamic Fundamentalism. Watch how he struggles with it. Trust me, he won't know how to reply.

Most people who buy into the politically correct tow-the-party-line bullshit haven't a fucking clue about Islam.

For the record, ALL nations governed by Sharia Law are Islamic Fundamentalist by the very definition. Any Muslim who propagates Sharia law is a fundamentalist.

The very heart of Islamic history- Saudi Arabia- practices Islamic Fundamentalism.

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07-03-2015, 07:18 AM
RE: I need help - How many Muslims are fundamentalists?
Who said discrimination is ALWAYS a bad thing????

Stay with me here....

It's not fair to discriminate against someone for that which they have no control over -- their size, nationality, race, gender, sexuality..........

BUT -- we ROUTINELY DISCRIMINATE -- against pedophiles, murderers, thieves and other "criminals" -- because what sets them apart from the rest of us is their CHOICE to be "the other".. Not only do we discriminate against them, we lock them in cages and occasionally even kill them.

So we obviously find some forms of discrimination all right and even just...

Isn't religion a thing of CHOICE rather than something you're born with???

Extrapolate.....

.......................................

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07-03-2015, 09:21 AM
RE: I need help - How many Muslims are fundamentalists?
(07-03-2015 12:21 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(06-03-2015 07:09 PM)Blackout Wrote:  I really need to know this. Basically my girlfriend hates Islam (for obvious reasons) and she is in a class about multiculturalism, so her professor accused her of being Islamophobic because she showed dislike towards the religion of Islam and the consequences attached to it. He proceeded to tell her that Muslim fundies are only 0.1% of the population of Muslims. He also told her that discriminating based on religion is equally bad as discriminating based on race or gender (forgetting that people do choose religion but not things like race)

I have doubts that fundies are so little in number. She needs to prove him wrong, obviously - So, can anyone tell me where to find sources? Anything will help

I'm not sure about this but I think he got the sources from the council that deals with Muslims' human rights issues, so I doubt it's reliable.

Obviously her teacher never read the Quran. Trying to make Islam acceptable in 2015 is like putting lipstick on a pig. The Quran has a lot of violent hateful garbage. The only way to "dress it up" is to deny the word in their holy book.

But of course - trying to make any literal reading of any religious text is a fool's errand.

(07-03-2015 12:21 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I'd ask him to show you the polls or studies that show what he claims.

There aren't any. Like I said, that kind of polling doesn't exist in places like Egypt or Saudi Arabia or Iran.

We can at least consider the number of people willing to leave their homes and take up arms for the "cause" of their fundamentalism. That gives us hundreds of thousands - problematically many, we might well say. But run the math on what fraction hundreds of thousands out of billions represents...

(07-03-2015 12:21 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I suspect there is no such thing as "Islam". It's probably like Christianity, and there are probably thousands of variations.

Indeed; every devout Muslim considers most other self-professed devout Muslims to be heretical - but again, that's how literally every fundamentalist religion on the planet works.

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07-03-2015, 09:34 AM
RE: I need help - How many Muslims are fundamentalists?
(07-03-2015 07:18 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Isn't religion a thing of CHOICE rather than something you're born with???

Religion often only becomes a choice when a person hears the right question or finds the right frame of mind to question their indoctrination.

Consider the following map and question:
[Image: worldmapsmall.jpg]
If religion is a choice, why do so many people share the religion of their parents?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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08-03-2015, 11:00 AM (This post was last modified: 08-03-2015 11:09 AM by DLJ.)
RE: I need help - How many Muslims are fundamentalists?
Thread closed while I split.

(Just pretend the color is green)


"We are here to serve"


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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08-03-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: I need help - How many Muslims are fundamentalists?
(08-03-2015 11:00 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Thread closed while I split.

(Just pretend the color is green)


"We are here to serve"

*snort*


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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08-03-2015, 11:17 AM
RE: I need help - How many Muslims are fundamentalists?
(06-03-2015 10:41 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Define "fundamentalist". Define "moderate".
(hell - define "Muslim")

Recall that in many places people are not actually free to answer those sorts of questions. Notwithstanding that it's far more useful to look into why people hold (or espouse, which is, again, a very different thing from acting on) such beliefs.

muslim - a person following the teaching of a mass murdering, bigoted, pedophile, misogynist, anti-human rights, war mongering asshole who claims to have had direct communication with his personal sky fairy or the short version of a person following the teachings of a guy named Muhammad


did I get that right ?
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08-03-2015, 03:35 PM
RE: I need help - How many Muslims are fundamentalists?
(08-03-2015 11:17 AM)Ace Wrote:  
(06-03-2015 10:41 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Define "fundamentalist". Define "moderate".
(hell - define "Muslim")

Recall that in many places people are not actually free to answer those sorts of questions. Notwithstanding that it's far more useful to look into why people hold (or espouse, which is, again, a very different thing from acting on) such beliefs.

muslim - a person following the teaching of a mass murdering, bigoted, pedophile, misogynist, anti-human rights, war mongering asshole who claims to have had direct communication with his personal sky fairy or the short version of a person following the teachings of a guy named Muhammad


did I get that right ?

Not... as such...

I mean, notwithstanding the many people I've met over my years, some of whom have been quite close to me, who both self-profess to be Muslims and yet are neither mass murderers, nor bigoted, nor pedophiles, nor misogynists, nor anti-human rights, nor war-mongerers, nor assholes.

As to being under the delusion of having direction communication with higher powers, well; that's hardly a unique fault. Which I can, and, indeed, do, find to be a fault - but it needn't necessarily imply anything whatsoever about their conduct in any other sphere.

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08-03-2015, 03:52 PM
RE: I need help - How many Muslims are fundamentalists?
As an aside --

News media, law enforcement, and the very organizations themselves all have reasons for tweaking the numbers.

A "for instance" --

Back in the 90's there was the "Michigan Militia" movement started up by Norm Olson and his merry crew here in Michigan. A bit of a whackadoodle --- but, his intent was honorable.. I met the guy, and I do know what I'm talking about here.........

The news media - up to national syndication -- covered the "Militia" movement ---- they just loved getting pictures of guys in camo, toting AK's and AR platform rifles --- out in the woods doing "maneuvers".... NATIONAL news media put the numbers at 600,000 or more in the "Michigan Militia".....

Move the decimal point a couple to the left and you'd be closer. I KNOW what I'm talking about here. I was there. I saw, and met these people --- some of who were certifiable....

The "Militia" members liked the inflated numbers -- as did the news media.... Face it -- a couple of hundred guys (maybe a couple thousand) doesn't make as good of copy as a half million.........

So --- I think it's safe to say, there's probably less of a threat from "Islamic Fundies" than the powers that be would like you to think.....

All the players have an agenda....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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08-03-2015, 04:07 PM
RE: I need help - How many Muslims are fundamentalists?
(08-03-2015 03:52 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  As an aside --

News media, law enforcement, and the very organizations themselves all have reasons for tweaking the numbers.

A "for instance" --

Back in the 90's there was the "Michigan Militia" movement started up by Norm Olson and his merry crew here in Michigan. A bit of a whackadoodle --- but, his intent was honorable.. I met the guy, and I do know what I'm talking about here.........

The news media - up to national syndication -- covered the "Militia" movement ---- they just loved getting pictures of guys in camo, toting AK's and AR platform rifles --- out in the woods doing "maneuvers".... NATIONAL news media put the numbers at 600,000 or more in the "Michigan Militia".....

Move the decimal point a couple to the left and you'd be closer. I KNOW what I'm talking about here. I was there. I saw, and met these people --- some of who were certifiable....

The "Militia" members liked the inflated numbers -- as did the news media.... Face it -- a couple of hundred guys (maybe a couple thousand) doesn't make as good of copy as a half million.........

So --- I think it's safe to say, there's probably less of a threat from "Islamic Fundies" than the powers that be would like you to think.....

All the players have an agenda....

Very much so - but with the caveat that far from going full-bore "lol conspiracy" with it, the primary motivation of most news agencies is not anything in anyway collusive, but merely "tell a bigger story".

And this generalises to a hell of a lot of other agencies and groups up the line. An intelligence agency submitting their annual budget is not going to include the statement, "the planet is more peaceful today than it has ever been in recorded history", even though that's true.

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