I need some help...
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12-01-2016, 10:27 PM
RE: I need some help...
(12-01-2016 10:08 PM)NutraSteve Wrote:  
(12-01-2016 09:33 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  I'm sorry you're going through this with him.

First, it almost sounds as if he's had a life threatening fright. Has he been ill? Has someone close died? He could be having fear of death response to something. Also, be careful of strange behaviors (believing god is talking to him) for dementia. Maybe speak to your mom privately about it.

Secondly, if you are not going to come out to him then you will have to suck it up because someone so obsessed with religion is not going to change. Avoid conflict by steering the convo in another direction and try not to get involved in his delusions.

You will find lots of help here and many different views that will be of value to you as you learn to navigate this difficult situation with your dad.

Be well. Smile

You actually hit on a couple of points here. This all started back in the summer time... I have it pin pointed down to a couple of events. First, we were all watching old home movies that my cousin had found at his house. I thought we were all having a good time watching, however I noticed Dad wasn't really enjoying himself. My grandparents (his mom and dad) were on there a lot and I think that triggered some of this.

He went out to the back deck and smoked most of the night. I'm wondering if seeing his parents on film, hearing them talk, maybe brought back some memories. Possibly holding out some hope that he'll be able to see them again, so he made the decision to get right with God.

Second, he fell off a ladder over the summer which created a small break in his neck. Maybe the idea that we're finite creeped in to him and he turned to God?

My mom and I have talked about it, and he's told her that he believes the devil has gotten a hold of her because she's not on par with him. She's been going out with her cousin exercising and just hanging out in general. He's not a fan at all of this. She's gets teary eyed whenever the whole situation is brought up.

Mom thinks that he's had some sort of premonition that something bad was going to happen to one of us if he doesn't "change his ways".


Thank you all for your posts. It really helps having other people to talk too!

You may want to see if your mom might want to go to counseling in order to deal with your dad's emotional stress on her. It must be very difficult for her to see her life mate slipping away from her emotionally. Sad

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12-01-2016, 11:18 PM
RE: I need some help...
(12-01-2016 06:41 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Damn.

If you can’t avoid it and he continues to push you and your family into a corner you have to put some distance between you or else confront him, your happiness is just as important as his.

Good luck.

I agree to a point. I believe you SHOULD just tell him. Lay it all down, tell him why he is crazy, what his extremism is doing to yo mum and you and really find the most batshit craziest fucks you can on youtube, news articals and everywhere else from the snake wavers to the people speaking in tounges. Tell him why those people are insane and show him that if he does not come back down to earth, his is going to be on the ground pretending to speak languages he is making up on the spot, pretending that he actually thinks he is in a seizure ( demon possessed ) and pretending that an omniscient omnipotent spaceless timeless thing is talking to him.

If he wants to eat a cracker and think its human flesh, fine, if he wants to listen "OCCASIONALLY" to a christian youtuber, fine, but draw the damned line at pentecost at all cost. do not let him get like that.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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13-01-2016, 12:25 AM
RE: I need some help...
Has your old man had someone take a look at his noodle? The boyo fell off a ladder and turned religious? What if it's a blood clot? Just a thought...

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-01-2016, 03:29 AM
RE: I need some help...
Having never been religious, I am sorry to offer no help. I cannot even believing such nonsense. However, I will be here to help if I can.

Welcome to the actual world. Not the Alice in Wonderland world.

Good luck. And welcome.

To quote lyrics I enjoy.

I see that life has taken toll.
Your shattered dreams I can't make whole.
But let me through and I will stay.
Close by your side to comfort you.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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13-01-2016, 09:38 AM
RE: I need some help...
Dear NutraSteve,

Welcome to the forum here on TTA. I am happy you are here to talk to us. I hope the community here can make a positive difference in your life just as it has in mine.

As you have probably already noticed, everybody here has their own opinions about what is best given your situation, especially those of us who have walked this path already.

I think I can really understand on a personal level why you feel reluctant to tell your father you don't believe in Christianity any more. I told my family I no longer believed in Mormonism right when I was freshly de-converted. I don't think I waited longer than a week or two.

At the time, especially because I was such a young man with no experience in the world on my own, I was convinced that hiding my Atheism would prevent me from becoming the adult I wanted to be, independent of my parents' deeply controlling views. I thought it was more important to be honest than to be concerned with any consequences my family might impose, fair or otherwise.

I sincerely regret my decision to tell my parents at that time, and in the manner I chose. (I wrote it all out in a massive letter.) If I could take it back, I would. I missed out on many opportunities with my family because of that decision. I learned a hard lesson about family. Some things you can't take back, and family really is a life long commitment. I have a good relationship with my family now, but it has been a few hard years. For a good while, none of my family were even interested in speaking to me.

Let me explain some of the negative consequences of my hastiness and method. For one thing, I didn't allow my family to take part in my de-conversion. I was afraid of what they would think of my new line of thinking, so I made my de-conversion a private matter of internet research and philosophical inquiry. When I finally did decide to share, I did so all at once, blasting them with a mountain of unexpected, emotionally shocking, information that ultimately turned them off to the discussion. Had I kept the big picture in mind, that I would want to be on good terms with them in the future, I could have gradually made my views known, or even allowed them to be discovered gradually through conversation. I missed out on the opportunity to teach my family about Humanism by setting an example of what it means to be a good son and brother. My hostility towards their beliefs, and the gusto with which I wrote about their incorrectness and my desire to abandon them, was painful and difficult for them to understand. It ultimately robbed me of opportunity to be taken seriously, without bias or misconception.

You see, my fears were justified given what I knew at the time. I was worried I might not ever talk to any of them again. Had I been wiser, I would have known that they were as much hoping for a peaceful happy relationship as I was. They were the ones who slowly worked their way back into my life, but they needed time to negotiate the difficult meteor shower of information and hostility I had ambushed them with. I missed out on what it would be like to gently question the reasons for their beliefs, before their terrible conceptions of "Atheism" took over their willingness to see me as I am.

I learned that a month isn't enough time to get comfortable in a new skin. I needed a few years. I had a lot of work to do. I had to demolish a systematic religious worldview that was built on a strong foundation of indoctrination, and then forge all the working parts of a unique, desirable, personal world view. I needed a second.

Ultimately, I think you might be surprised at the possibilities with family. We interact now better than ever before, even when I was a believer. I hope that if I were in your place I could see your father's situation as the opportunity it really is. You might find the perfect way to stay honest with yourself, to question his reasons for believing, and most importantly to talk with him about what he's going through right now. If I could do it again, I would take it slow and make sure he knew I loved him.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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13-01-2016, 10:02 AM
RE: I need some help...
(13-01-2016 09:38 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Dear NutraSteve,

Welcome to the forum here on TTA. I am happy you are here to talk to us. I hope the community here can make a positive difference in your life just as it has in mine.

As you have probably already noticed, everybody here has their own opinions about what is best given your situation, especially those of us who have walked this path already.

I think I can really understand on a personal level why you feel reluctant to tell your father you don't believe in Christianity any more. I told my family I no longer believed in Mormonism right when I was freshly de-converted. I don't think I waited longer than a week or two.

At the time, especially because I was such a young man with no experience in the world on my own, I was convinced that hiding my Atheism would prevent me from becoming the adult I wanted to be, independent of my parents' deeply controlling views. I thought it was more important to be honest than to be concerned with any consequences my family might impose, fair or otherwise.

I sincerely regret my decision to tell my parents at that time, and in the manner I chose. (I wrote it all out in a massive letter.) If I could take it back, I would. I missed out on many opportunities with my family because of that decision. I learned a hard lesson about family. Some things you can't take back, and family really is a life long commitment. I have a good relationship with my family now, but it has been a few hard years. For a good while, none of my family were even interested in speaking to me.

Let me explain some of the negative consequences of my hastiness and method. For one thing, I didn't allow my family to take part in my de-conversion. I was afraid of what they would think of my new line of thinking, so I made my de-conversion a private matter of internet research and philosophical inquiry. When I finally did decide to share, I did so all at once, blasting them with a mountain of unexpected, emotionally shocking, information that ultimately turned them off to the discussion. Had I kept the big picture in mind, that I would want to be on good terms with them in the future, I could have gradually made my views known, or even allowed them to be discovered gradually through conversation. I missed out on the opportunity to teach my family about Humanism by setting an example of what it means to be a good son and brother. My hostility towards their beliefs, and the gusto with which I wrote about their incorrectness and my desire to abandon them, was painful and difficult for them to understand. It ultimately robbed me of opportunity to be taken seriously, without bias or misconception.

You see, my fears were justified given what I knew at the time. I was worried I might not ever talk to any of them again. Had I been wiser, I would have known that they were as much hoping for a peaceful happy relationship as I was. They were the ones who slowly worked their way back into my life, but they needed time to negotiate the difficult meteor shower of information and hostility I had ambushed them with. I missed out on what it would be like to gently question the reasons for their beliefs, before their terrible conceptions of "Atheism" took over their willingness to see me as I am.

I learned that a month isn't enough time to get comfortable in a new skin. I needed a few years. I had a lot of work to do. I had to demolish a systematic religious worldview that was built on a strong foundation of indoctrination, and then forge all the working parts of a unique, desirable, personal world view. I needed a second.

Ultimately, I think you might be surprised at the possibilities with family. We interact now better than ever before, even when I was a believer. I hope that if I were in your place I could see your father's situation as the opportunity it really is. You might find the perfect way to stay honest with yourself, to question his reasons for believing, and most importantly to talk with him about what he's going through right now. If I could do it again, I would take it slow and make sure he knew I loved him.

Wonderful, thank you for your advice. It really does help having others that are like me that I can communicate with!
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13-01-2016, 10:26 AM (This post was last modified: 13-01-2016 12:57 PM by NutraSteve.)
RE: I need some help...
Some more thoughts...

It's depressing to me that my Dad finds this world to be such a horrible place. Sure, terrible stuff happens. I won't deny that. But there is so much that makes me happy... And makes my wife and daughter happy. Why do Christians always think the world is going down the drain and is coming to an end? Wouldn't it have made more sense during Hitler's reign for God to come back? Or during the black plague? I mean what is happening now that convinces these people the world is a terrible place? He mentioned that he didn't want to make me mad, but the Disney trips we were about to take don't hold any value. That I need to take my daughter out to the woods and show her God's beauty.

Now don't get me wrong, I think nature is beautiful, but why rain on my parade? It's almost worrisome... What happens to them that they are so positive they are right? What are they seeing or hearing that makes them so sure?
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13-01-2016, 11:24 AM
RE: I need some help...
He needs a new hobby.

If he has any old interests, maybe you can reinforce them by buying a pretty book about it or something. Get his mind off the god stuff for a bit.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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13-01-2016, 12:31 PM
RE: I need some help...
(13-01-2016 10:26 AM)NutraSteve Wrote:  Why do Christians always think the world is going down the drain and is coming to an end?

Because they want it to; so bad. Jesus is suppose to come back when all this happens. They want to know their crazy views are solidified. They want to rub it in everyone's faces when shed their close and fly up in the sky.

(13-01-2016 10:26 AM)NutraSteve Wrote:  Wouldn't it have made more since during Hitler's reign for God to come back? Or during the black plague?

What is this nonsense? Logical reasoning?

From a believers view all these things had to happen. It's all part of Gods plan. In order to know good, we must suffer. From a believers view death, rape and murder all must happen. So that the people it doesn't happen to know how good they have it. And it a sign of Gods love.

From there view humans survived the black plague and Holocaust, because god was just cleaning house.

(13-01-2016 10:26 AM)NutraSteve Wrote:  I mean what is happening now that convinces these people the world is a terrible place?

War. Christians in the US are finding out their not the only religion. And some of these other religions extremist are willing to go a lot further they they are. This scares them.

Plus when you compare how great people make heaven to be. Anything compared to it is dirt.

(13-01-2016 10:26 AM)NutraSteve Wrote:  It's almost worrisome... What happens to them that they are so positive they are right?

Welcome to Wonderland. You at one time where a believer. You've only been out for a year now. When I finaly accepted my atheism I started noticing all the crazy shit going on around me that was always just background noise.

I think it's a great part on how one is raised. How much it's enforced. And the level of education. I'm not just talking about schooling. But how they easily understand information that is presented to them and be able to contrast it with the real world.

I was told for the majority of my life that God was real, family, neighbors, friends. I didn't have any real reason to question it. I just accepted and went about my day.

(13-01-2016 10:26 AM)NutraSteve Wrote:  What are they seeing or hearing that makes them so sure?

Nothing. It's self-hypnosis. They don't want to be left out. And they convince themselves that

I tried to finding it but I couldn't locate it. I believe it was Brain Games did an experiment where they had put kids in the room alone, with a jar of candy. They told the children that there was an invisable princess in the room with them. And if they took the candy she would tell on them.

Most of the kids looked around the room and a few walked over the sneak some candy. When they did the scientist would makes a noise. wind chime a creaking noise. The children thinking that it was the invisible princess put the candy back and would run back to their seats.

Nothing was in the room, but the children didn't know anything else outside what they were told from the adults. The same reasoning can be applied to ghost or big foot. People that look for these things are already wanting to find them Since in that mind set anything that happens it could be a noise or something they find that they don't know how it got there, they will attribute that that occurrence.

God is no more special then that. People that say god helped them threw their addiction, or helped them win the super bowl or whatever. Have put self doubt in their own ability. And don't think about all the time that they put into reaching that goal. They think the only way they could have gotten their if a supernatural being helped them along the way. Maybe they spent more time a different location, with different people then the ones they normally did that can be attributed to their rehabilitation.

(13-01-2016 10:26 AM)NutraSteve Wrote:  That I need to take my daughter out to the woods and show her God's beauty.

If he persists with the nature thing. You can always rebuttal with.

"Why would I want to take my kids to a place they could be eaten by bears?"

"Nature will still be there when we get back."

or

"We'll see nature threw all these trips. The expansive oceans on the cruise, and the sky and land from the plane."

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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13-01-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: I need some help...
(13-01-2016 11:24 AM)Dom Wrote:  He needs a new hobby.

If he has any old interests, maybe you can reinforce them by buying a pretty book about it or something. Get his mind off the god stuff for a bit.

This is a VERY good idea. A little distraction won't hurt and if it's something you can take an interest in that would probably be good too. Smile

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