I need to be an atheist to set myself free
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12-10-2016, 02:59 PM
RE: I need to be an atheist to set myself free
(12-10-2016 02:48 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 02:35 PM)SuperMarioGamer Wrote:  I'm not in the light-hearted position for such advice. I am in a serious situation where my life has been taken away from me due to this worry. Eternal hell would be the worst thing. An eternal heaven would be the greatest thing if it were blissful. If it were boring or a drag, then it would still not be anywhere near as bad as an eternal hell.

Nothing i have said is light hearted and assure you your situation on this issue is no less serious then anyone here

Eternal hell would be the worst thing
why ? sure there would be pain but why should that stop you?

An eternal heaven would be the greatest thing if it were blissful
why?why would bliss make it worth it?

If it were boring or a drag, then it would still not be anywhere near as bad as an eternal hell.
why? could you really stand going slowly insane from the shear mental anguish of an existence of mere existing nothing more.

The entire idea of eternity is an idea that only makes sense to an ancient mindset that had no concept of how humans change.

If I was in heaven as a toddler, I would find immense bliss talking to Big Bird about his friend Snuffleupagus and playing with Oscar the Grouch.

If I had to put up with this for 40-50 years, I would want to shoot Big Bird with a shotgun, I would be absolutely sick of the childish anthropomorphic bird and his shallow mind and his inability to discuss things beyond the scope of a second grader.

People change, there can be no paradise in an eternal state, but a shallow religion asserts otherwise.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-10-2016, 03:03 PM
RE: I need to be an atheist to set myself free
(12-10-2016 02:59 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 02:48 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  Nothing i have said is light hearted and assure you your situation on this issue is no less serious then anyone here

Eternal hell would be the worst thing
why ? sure there would be pain but why should that stop you?

An eternal heaven would be the greatest thing if it were blissful
why?why would bliss make it worth it?

If it were boring or a drag, then it would still not be anywhere near as bad as an eternal hell.
why? could you really stand going slowly insane from the shear mental anguish of an existence of mere existing nothing more.

The entire idea of eternity is an idea that only makes sense to an ancient mindset that had no concept of how humans change.

If I was in heaven as a toddler, I would find immense bliss talking to Big Bird about his friend Snuffleupagus and playing with Oscar the Grouch.

If I had to put up with this for 40-50 years, I would want to shoot Big Bird with a shotgun, I would be absolutely sick of the childish anthropomorphic bird and his shallow mind and his inability to discuss things beyond the scope of a second grader.

People change, there can be no paradise in an eternal state, but a shallow religion asserts otherwise.

That is the single best comment i have read today Thumbsup

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12-10-2016, 03:12 PM
RE: I need to be an atheist to set myself free
let me put my thoughts another way

bliss can be a state of agony and torment

pain can be a state of agony and torment

boredom and fatalism can be a state of agony and torment

any one for eternity is of questionable desirability

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12-10-2016, 03:14 PM
RE: I need to be an atheist to set myself free
(12-10-2016 02:35 PM)SuperMarioGamer Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 02:28 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  Put it this way my friend. Let's say for senerios sake hell existed. Here's a question would it be anymore scary then the alternative. I mean dose heaven in anyway seem appealing?. A place where your some gods bitch for the rest of eternity and your existence is just one meandering pointless drag.Sure there's your dead relatives but after a time even there presence could not stave off the grind of eternal existence .Hell even if heaven were ever shifting and ever exciting it's just a curtain on the above. face it an afterlife cheapens this one . life is vital and things matter because you won't get another chance to experience them or to experience period.So live now if hell awaits just remember you did so and leave a better world behind you .Those are things no one not even a god can steal from you.
I'm not in the light-hearted position for such advice. I am in a serious situation where my life has been taken away from me due to this worry. Eternal hell would be the worst thing. An eternal heaven would be the greatest thing if it were blissful. If it were boring or a drag, then it would still not be anywhere near as bad as an eternal hell.

Listen to what you are saying--that a magical leprechaun that lives in a mansion and magical village in the clouds has the power to send you to a fiery inferno with a red, hoofed monster to torture you for eternity--all because you like to play music which offends said magical leprechaun.

The Bible also mentions a talking snake, a talking donkey, a worldwide flood *that covered the earth*, a winged creature that flies around with a hot coal, a person being turned into salt, demons causing illness and disease, God having his own private storehouses of snow up in the heavens, a firmament (kind of like Stephen King's Dome) that covers the earth, and zombies that get up out of their graves and walk around the city. And these are just a few of the myths you can read about in the Bible.

Do you know how many other cultures also have their own stories like this and their own gods? Thousands. All different beliefs, all different requirements for beliefs, all different gods. In paraphrasing author Guy P. Harrison--The only way to be *totally* sure that you are covered, is to worship every single one of these gods and adhere to each of their religions. And even if you spent (or wasted) your entire lifetime doing this, due to the vast majority of gods that ever are, ever were, and ever will be, you still will not have been able to worship all of them because there are simply too many.

So here's your choice, you can attempt to worship as many gods as you feasibly can in this lifetime based on random claims made by a variety of different people OR you can weigh claims rationally and logically based on scientific explanations and then draw your *own* conclusions.
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12-10-2016, 03:16 PM
RE: I need to be an atheist to set myself free
(12-10-2016 02:48 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  Nothing i have said is light hearted and assure you your situation on this issue is no less serious then anyone here

Eternal hell would be the worst thing
why ? sure there would be pain but why should that stop you?

An eternal heaven would be the greatest thing if it were blissful
why?why would bliss make it worth it?

If it were boring or a drag, then it would still not be anywhere near as bad as an eternal hell.
why? could you really stand going slowly insane from the shear mental anguish of an existence of mere existing nothing more.
It would obviously depend on the degree of pain in hell. If It were nothing more than some very minor ache in my arms that I had to live with, then hell would be no problem. But if it is burning in an eternal lake of fire, then that would obviously be the worst thing.

For me personally, eternal bliss would be the greatest thing. Everyone is different. I wish to be happy. That is an experience that makes my life worth living. As for going insane in heaven vs the torment in hell, I think hell would be worse because you are burning in a lake of fire on top of going insane for eternity.

But since there would be no suffering up in heaven and since going bored and insane are a form of suffering, then one should never go bored and insane up in heaven anyway.

(12-10-2016 02:55 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Still a little confused here.

But i'll give it a shot.

So first things first.

Who hurt you?

At least from the story presented it sounded like you had it pretty good. You're mother seem's kind. And most kids (especially teens) are self-centered. So who got into your head and started pushing this bible crap into it? No one on earth could ever live up to it's impossible standards.

I understand a person wanting to remain neutral. I too called myself an agnostic for the longest time. So ether you believe some sort of god exists or you don't.

You've seemed to center you're sights on the modern christian god. Why do you believe this one this i the one to be afraid of?
The Jewish version, dosen't have hell.
Hinduism has reincarnation. Why don't you fear coming back as a cockroach or or tree?
It Ancient Rome and Greese had Hades, the land of the dead. Everyone pretty much when to the Field of Asphodels. For the ones that created Havoc they where sent to the fields of punishment, but if you where a demigod or a hero you got to get to Elysium.
Nordic's believed if you didn't die in battle you wouldn't be able to get to the halls of Valhalla, and doomed to wonder the earth.

These don't seem to be presenting the same amount of fear in you as the christian punishment.

And is a god that is so willing to torture people for living their lives the best way they know how. Really one that should be listened to or worshiped?
It was me who further looked into the bible and realized that this was not the type of God who wanted me to be happy. I realized this was a God who demands me to live for Him and to give up my pleasure-centered lifestyle, or go to hell.

As for your question, it all depends on what religion offers the worst suffering. Coming back as a cockroach or a tree would obviously be nowhere near as bad as suffering in an eternal lake of fire.

The bible offers the worst suffering of eternal hell which is why my worries are more focused on the possibility of the bible being true than the other possible tormenting truths of other religions.
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12-10-2016, 03:33 PM
RE: I need to be an atheist to set myself free
(12-10-2016 03:16 PM)SuperMarioGamer Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 02:48 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  Nothing i have said is light hearted and assure you your situation on this issue is no less serious then anyone here

Eternal hell would be the worst thing
why ? sure there would be pain but why should that stop you?

An eternal heaven would be the greatest thing if it were blissful
why?why would bliss make it worth it?

If it were boring or a drag, then it would still not be anywhere near as bad as an eternal hell.
why? could you really stand going slowly insane from the shear mental anguish of an existence of mere existing nothing more.
It would obviously depend on the degree of pain in hell. If It were nothing more than some very minor ache in my arms that I had to live with, then hell would be no problem. But if it is burning in an eternal lake of fire, then that would obviously be the worst thing.

For me personally, eternal bliss would be the greatest thing. Everyone is different. I wish to be happy. That is an experience that makes my life worth living. As for going insane in heaven vs the torment in hell, I think hell would be worse because you are burning in a lake of fire on top of going insane for eternity.

But since there would be no suffering up in heaven and since going bored and insane are a form of suffering, then one should never go bored and insane up in heaven anyway.

(12-10-2016 02:55 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Still a little confused here.

But i'll give it a shot.

So first things first.

Who hurt you?

At least from the story presented it sounded like you had it pretty good. You're mother seem's kind. And most kids (especially teens) are self-centered. So who got into your head and started pushing this bible crap into it? No one on earth could ever live up to it's impossible standards.

I understand a person wanting to remain neutral. I too called myself an agnostic for the longest time. So ether you believe some sort of god exists or you don't.

You've seemed to center you're sights on the modern christian god. Why do you believe this one this i the one to be afraid of?
The Jewish version, dosen't have hell.
Hinduism has reincarnation. Why don't you fear coming back as a cockroach or or tree?
It Ancient Rome and Greese had Hades, the land of the dead. Everyone pretty much when to the Field of Asphodels. For the ones that created Havoc they where sent to the fields of punishment, but if you where a demigod or a hero you got to get to Elysium.
Nordic's believed if you didn't die in battle you wouldn't be able to get to the halls of Valhalla, and doomed to wonder the earth.

These don't seem to be presenting the same amount of fear in you as the christian punishment.

And is a god that is so willing to torture people for living their lives the best way they know how. Really one that should be listened to or worshiped?
It was me who further looked into the bible and realized that this was not the type of God who wanted me to be happy. I realized this was a God who demands me to live for Him and to give up my pleasure-centered lifestyle, or go to hell.

As for your question, it all depends on what religion offers the worst suffering. Coming back as a cockroach or a tree would obviously be nowhere near as bad as suffering in an eternal lake of fire.

The bible offers the worst suffering of eternal hell which is why my worries are more focused on the possibility of the bible being true than the other possible tormenting truths of other religions.

Watch this:





In fact watch every video on Darkmatter's channel. You are in fear of myth, unless your intellect can triumph over your primal fear, then you will remain in fear.

When you're done with that channel, move to this channel:





Fear diminishes with knowledge.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-10-2016, 03:37 PM
RE: I need to be an atheist to set myself free
(12-10-2016 03:14 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 02:35 PM)SuperMarioGamer Wrote:  I'm not in the light-hearted position for such advice. I am in a serious situation where my life has been taken away from me due to this worry. Eternal hell would be the worst thing. An eternal heaven would be the greatest thing if it were blissful. If it were boring or a drag, then it would still not be anywhere near as bad as an eternal hell.

Listen to what you are saying--that a magical leprechaun that lives in a mansion and magical village in the clouds has the power to send you to a fiery inferno with a red, hoofed monster to torture you for eternity--all because you like to play music which offends said magical leprechaun.

The Bible also mentions a talking snake, a talking donkey, a worldwide flood *that covered the earth*, a winged creature that flies around with a hot coal, a person being turned into salt, demons causing illness and disease, God having his own private storehouses of snow up in the heavens, a firmament (kind of like Stephen King's Dome) that covers the earth, and zombies that get up out of their graves and walk around the city. And these are just a few of the myths you can read about in the Bible.

Do you know how many other cultures also have their own stories like this and their own gods? Thousands. All different beliefs, all different requirements for beliefs, all different gods. In paraphrasing author Guy P. Harrison--The only way to be *totally* sure that you are covered, is to worship every single one of these gods and adhere to each of their religions. And even if you spent (or wasted) your entire lifetime doing this, due to the vast majority of gods that ever are, ever were, and ever will be, you still will not have been able to worship all of them because there are simply too many.

So here's your choice, you can attempt to worship as many gods as you feasibly can in this lifetime based on random claims made by a variety of different people OR you can weigh claims rationally and logically based on scientific explanations and then draw your *own* conclusions.

(12-10-2016 03:33 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 03:16 PM)SuperMarioGamer Wrote:  It would obviously depend on the degree of pain in hell. If It were nothing more than some very minor ache in my arms that I had to live with, then hell would be no problem. But if it is burning in an eternal lake of fire, then that would obviously be the worst thing.

For me personally, eternal bliss would be the greatest thing. Everyone is different. I wish to be happy. That is an experience that makes my life worth living. As for going insane in heaven vs the torment in hell, I think hell would be worse because you are burning in a lake of fire on top of going insane for eternity.

But since there would be no suffering up in heaven and since going bored and insane are a form of suffering, then one should never go bored and insane up in heaven anyway.

It was me who further looked into the bible and realized that this was not the type of God who wanted me to be happy. I realized this was a God who demands me to live for Him and to give up my pleasure-centered lifestyle, or go to hell.

As for your question, it all depends on what religion offers the worst suffering. Coming back as a cockroach or a tree would obviously be nowhere near as bad as suffering in an eternal lake of fire.

The bible offers the worst suffering of eternal hell which is why my worries are more focused on the possibility of the bible being true than the other possible tormenting truths of other religions.

Watch this:





In fact watch every video on Darkmatter's channel. You are in fear of myth, unless your intellect can triumph over your primal fear, then you will remain in fear.

When you're done with that channel, move to this channel:





Fear diminishes with knowledge.
This is one of the debating points atheists would make against religion. But we also have William Lane Craig who puts up good debating points against atheists as well. So that is why I remain agnostic. That is why I do not just jump to conclusions. I always remain open to both possibilities presented by both sides of the debate.
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12-10-2016, 03:51 PM
RE: I need to be an atheist to set myself free
(12-10-2016 03:33 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 03:16 PM)SuperMarioGamer Wrote:  It would obviously depend on the degree of pain in hell. If It were nothing more than some very minor ache in my arms that I had to live with, then hell would be no problem. But if it is burning in an eternal lake of fire, then that would obviously be the worst thing.

For me personally, eternal bliss would be the greatest thing. Everyone is different. I wish to be happy. That is an experience that makes my life worth living. As for going insane in heaven vs the torment in hell, I think hell would be worse because you are burning in a lake of fire on top of going insane for eternity.

But since there would be no suffering up in heaven and since going bored and insane are a form of suffering, then one should never go bored and insane up in heaven anyway.

It was me who further looked into the bible and realized that this was not the type of God who wanted me to be happy. I realized this was a God who demands me to live for Him and to give up my pleasure-centered lifestyle, or go to hell.

As for your question, it all depends on what religion offers the worst suffering. Coming back as a cockroach or a tree would obviously be nowhere near as bad as suffering in an eternal lake of fire.

The bible offers the worst suffering of eternal hell which is why my worries are more focused on the possibility of the bible being true than the other possible tormenting truths of other religions.

Watch this:





In fact watch every video on Darkmatter's channel. You are in fear of myth, unless your intellect can triumph over your primal fear, then you will remain in fear.

When you're done with that channel, move to this channel:





Fear diminishes with knowledge.

Great video on Hell. Thanks for posting Thumbsup

In the video it says "We must be able to precisely study what hell requires." I loved Darkmatter's explanation. I would add that Hell also requires a belief in the Christian faith. If you weren't raised Christian and were instead raised in another religion, hell would be a non-issue. This should illustrate for SuperMarioG that fear of hell is a learned behavior. Learned ='s something *other people* taught you. If God was real--doesn't it make sense that the fear of hell would be an innate behavior (something instinctive)?
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12-10-2016, 03:54 PM
RE: I need to be an atheist to set myself free
(12-10-2016 03:37 PM)SuperMarioGamer Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 03:14 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Listen to what you are saying--that a magical leprechaun that lives in a mansion and magical village in the clouds has the power to send you to a fiery inferno with a red, hoofed monster to torture you for eternity--all because you like to play music which offends said magical leprechaun.

The Bible also mentions a talking snake, a talking donkey, a worldwide flood *that covered the earth*, a winged creature that flies around with a hot coal, a person being turned into salt, demons causing illness and disease, God having his own private storehouses of snow up in the heavens, a firmament (kind of like Stephen King's Dome) that covers the earth, and zombies that get up out of their graves and walk around the city. And these are just a few of the myths you can read about in the Bible.

Do you know how many other cultures also have their own stories like this and their own gods? Thousands. All different beliefs, all different requirements for beliefs, all different gods. In paraphrasing author Guy P. Harrison--The only way to be *totally* sure that you are covered, is to worship every single one of these gods and adhere to each of their religions. And even if you spent (or wasted) your entire lifetime doing this, due to the vast majority of gods that ever are, ever were, and ever will be, you still will not have been able to worship all of them because there are simply too many.

So here's your choice, you can attempt to worship as many gods as you feasibly can in this lifetime based on random claims made by a variety of different people OR you can weigh claims rationally and logically based on scientific explanations and then draw your *own* conclusions.

(12-10-2016 03:33 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Watch this:





In fact watch every video on Darkmatter's channel. You are in fear of myth, unless your intellect can triumph over your primal fear, then you will remain in fear.

When you're done with that channel, move to this channel:





Fear diminishes with knowledge.
This is one of the debating points atheists would make against religion. But we also have William Lane Craig who puts up good debating points against atheists as well. So that is why I remain agnostic. That is why I do not just jump to conclusions. I always remain open to both possibilities presented by both sides of the debate.

It is good to look at all sides. But at some point you have to decide for yourself if magic is a good enough explanation. If I told you I saw a winged creature flying around with a hot coal--would you believe me?
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12-10-2016, 03:57 PM
RE: I need to be an atheist to set myself free
(12-10-2016 02:35 PM)SuperMarioGamer Wrote:  I'm not in the light-hearted position for such advice. I am in a serious situation where my life has been taken away from me due to this worry. Eternal hell would be the worst thing. An eternal heaven would be the greatest thing if it were blissful. If it were boring or a drag, then it would still not be anywhere near as bad as an eternal hell.

You are afraid of a myth.

Think about that - you are afraid of a fucking myth.

Since this is having such a negative effect on your life, I urge you to get therapy, in particular cognitive therapy.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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