I need to understand this quote because it's driving me cracy
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28-06-2015, 04:09 PM
RE: I need to understand this quote because it's driving me cracy
(27-06-2015 09:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(27-06-2015 08:57 PM)IAMTRAND Wrote:  Thanks so much, I'm an agnostic atheist by the way.

Lewis wasn't right in the head. He was profoundly disturbed by the death of his wife.

I'm agnostic too. I don't know if there's a 1957 Chevy orbiting Pluto.

*groan*
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28-06-2015, 04:41 PM
RE: I need to understand this quote because it's driving me cracy
(28-06-2015 05:55 AM)DLJ Wrote:  For context, there is this ... paragraph 18.

He is talking about his own conversion but make of it what you will.

Undecided

"In reading Chesterton, as in reading MacDonald, I did not know what I was letting myself in for", he writes in Surprised by Joy. "A young man who wishes to remain a sound Atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. There are traps everywhere — 'Bibles laid open, millions of surprises', as Herbert say, 'fine nets and stratagems'. God is, if I may say it, very unscrupulous".

#sigh
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28-06-2015, 06:37 PM
RE: I need to understand this quote because it's driving me cracy
Ugh, freakin' G. K. Chesterton and C. S. Lewis are what pushed me over the edge from what I like to call "Ijustdontgiveafuckanymoreism" into full-blown Militant Agnosticism ("I don't know, AND YOU DON'T EITHER!!") and eventually agnostic atheism.

After five years of my family not talking to me for rejecting the church, having forced me to choose at age 17 between ability to remain in my family's house and being free to leave the church (the two were linked-- guess which I chose), they decided to re-establish contact when I was 22 and in my bonus-Senior (5th) year of college, when I was about to graduate with a Biology degree. It turned out they did so not out of love for me, but because they had heard I believed in Evolution, which apparently was worse than simply rejecting the church-- I think they held onto the "Prodigal Son" fantasy, that I would someday return humbled when I had "hit rock bottom", so graduating with a degree in EVILution science popped the bubble on that fantasy and caused them to react/panic-- and they committed a terrible mistake, as a result.

They sent me copies of Chesterton's Orthodoxy, with a warning note that it was not sound doctrine but still could help me (ironically, it was one of the books I'd been trained against in my Youth Apologist years, over half a decade before), and everything Lewis wrote, from Screwtape Letters to Mere Christianity. Dreck and drivel; I had a great time pointing out logical fallacies, inconsistencies, and contradictions between the confident assertions of the two authors in my replies when my folks asked about how my reading was coming. I did this despite the fact that I had studies, labs, exams, and a VERY full personal-life-schedule that year.

They also sent me a book against evolution by a guy named Phillip Johnson... who was so bad at his attempts to explain evolution in order to debunk the StrawMan he had built that I actually footnoted the margins of each page, stapled in typed-up References pages in the back, and cited examples/proofs of all the things Johnson (a lawyer) insisted could not be demonstrated in a court of law. Then I gave it back to them and said I would speak to them again when they had read every page of it as I did, plus all of my notes, and could "reasonably discuss" why they'd handed me a book so full of obvious lies about and misrepresentations of science, and thought I was too stupid to see through them.

It would literally be another five years before we spoke again, briefly over the phone, during which my mother sobbed and said she didn't want to "see her son go to hell" for my "foolishness" ... aaaaaaand another three years after that before we regained contact on any serious level... and only at the insistence of my wife, after she had given birth to our son, whom she desired would know his paternal grandparents. Luckily, my siblings had both rejected their faiths by then, and losing all three children sobered my folks' fundamentalist rhetoric to the point I could stand to be around them. Indeed, now that they're not talking Judgemental Jesus constantly, I kinda like 'em.

This is the power of religion.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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