I preached my final sermon today!
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24-07-2011, 11:34 PM
Smile I preached my final sermon today!
I needed to fulfill an obligation and so I did. All the while I thought of how much of what I was saying I didn't believe. But I also witnessed just how much this stuff appeals to peoples emotional needs, and how, to some it can be helpful. Then my thoughts shifted to the tragedy of the past week, and I realized just how nasty religion can make someone. in between this dichotomy, it was very apparent that while religion has it's good and bad, the problem isn't religion...the problem is God...whoever, whatever that is.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
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25-07-2011, 06:58 AM
RE: I preached my final sermon today!
Wow that's some heavy stuff man. Out of curiosity what branch of religion have you hailed from?
I can only say I find your assessment interesting though I personally do not entirely agree. Of course if god were real which it may be, I would have serious issue with it. Me and it would have to have a serious chat if I am capable of such a thing. But let's say a godlike creature helped us out by creating us and then it died or meandered off to some other place.
In this instance I would have to say that our free will must have been in charge when we decided to creat religion in all of it's forms. And religion is a problem. A very real very powerful problem.
People die and kill, people do damage to children pshycologically. And all under this magnificent shroud of protection we've created for it.
Anyway glad you are here and have what I would call a very rare perspective on this thing. Hope you stick around to chat.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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25-07-2011, 10:25 AM
RE: I preached my final sermon today!
One of the things we have so much trouble facing:

Religion isn't the problem: good people behave well whether they're believers - in whatever they believe - or unbelievers; bad people behave badly, regardless of what they claim to believe (We don't know whether, and if so, what, they really believe, because they lie.) Bad people will use religion as a cover for their own ends, just as they'll use patriotism, progress, science, liberty, equality and fraternity. Good people will do beneficial work under any of those banners.

God isn't the problem, either. The early - capricious, moody, cruel - gods more closely reflected Nature as experienced by early humans. The middle-age gods - intolerant, egotistical, vengeful - reflected hierarchical civilization. The most recent gods are hypocrites and con artists, reflecting our experience of the times.

The problem is.... soylent green.

(PS Congratulations, djgenx7. Onward and upward, dudex!)

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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25-07-2011, 10:28 AM
RE: I preached my final sermon today!
But religion does provide extremists with a socially acceptable platform from which to judge and preach from.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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25-07-2011, 11:06 AM
RE: I preached my final sermon today!
thanks guys. been deconverted for about 2 months now but this las t move was the final nail. I think when i say that God is the problem, i go on the presumption that he is real, not that I think he is. But let's say he is... people are believing in someone that seemingly doesnt give two rips about anything. I think that's very apparent in the wake of the events that happened this week in norway. Unfortunately yes, religion does serve as a fuel for people, both good and bad...but if this God, that people believe in, would actually do something, alot of problems would be solved. the fact that he doesnt, only further cements my disbelief and opens up my understanding of why people integrate religion into their lives. religion is a man made crutch. Something I;ve known for some time, but never became more prevalent then this week.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
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25-07-2011, 11:11 AM
RE: I preached my final sermon today!
Just wondering if there was any fallout for you after leaving?

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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25-07-2011, 02:29 PM
RE: I preached my final sermon today!
(25-07-2011 10:28 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  But religion does provide extremists with a socially acceptable platform from which to judge and preach from.

What makes a platform socially acceptable? A society's acceptance.
What makes extremism possible? A faction's enthusiasm and everyone else's compliance.
If we didn't follow them, it wouldn't matter what they stood on, they would stand there alone, bare-assed and embarrassed.
We prefer to think that, if not for this -ism or that -ion, we'd be fine. No.... when we get rid of one damn thing, we invent another - more usually, we invent a new damn thing, and keep all the old ones, too. It's us.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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25-07-2011, 04:10 PM
RE: I preached my final sermon today!
(25-07-2011 02:29 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  
(25-07-2011 10:28 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  But religion does provide extremists with a socially acceptable platform from which to judge and preach from.

What makes a platform socially acceptable? A society's acceptance.
What makes extremism possible? A faction's enthusiasm and everyone else's compliance.
If we didn't follow them, it wouldn't matter what they stood on, they would stand there alone, bare-assed and embarrassed.
We prefer to think that, if not for this -ism or that -ion, we'd be fine. No.... when we get rid of one damn thing, we invent another - more usually, we invent a new damn thing, and keep all the old ones, too. It's us.

I agree with that but religion is the problem because we have made it the problem. I totally agree that it is us as well but one loony-toon standing alone without any labels is just regarded as an idiot but a christian with a sign yelling at the top of his lungs is just "passionate" about his beliefs because Christianity is socially accepted. If only Christianity were coupled with gore, violence, contradictions, misinterpretations and general evil then we could discredit it...

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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25-07-2011, 04:15 PM
RE: I preached my final sermon today!
You preach on Mondays?

"We Humans are capable of greatness." -Carl Sagan
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25-07-2011, 06:44 PM
RE: I preached my final sermon today!
(25-07-2011 04:10 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I agree with that but religion is the problem because we have made it the problem. I totally agree that it is us as well but one loony-toon standing alone without any labels is just regarded as an idiot...
But that's exactly what the first christian was! The authorities in charge of the previous thing got him. The mob cheered. They got the next hundred or so. After that, the mob thinned out some, and the new damn thing became vaguely okay, then respectable, then mainstream, then dominant, then authoritarian, then Torquemada.

Christianity is no different from any other craze that gives us an excuse to kill, rape and pillage.
Marx was one loony-toon standing alone, and then.... etc. etc..... Stalin.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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