I sort of didn't believe it until I experienced an argument with a fundie
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25-03-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: I sort of didn't believe it until I experienced an argument with a fundie
Oy, vey. There are also passages on redemption of the first born. A sacrifice was made to signify the redemption of the first born child so that it would NOT be killed. A picture of John 3:16/Jesus Christ. Jewish tradition/history also records that no child was ever put to death for disobedience despite the law in place. A simple face value reading of the scriptures in contrast to that ancient culture of the surrounding nations shows God rejected all human sacrifice--except Christ's. And, of course, there is no empirical evidence for "E", only textual INTERPRETATIONS, and Issac survived to bless Jacob and Esau later.
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25-03-2013, 01:57 PM
RE: I sort of didn't believe it until I experienced an argument with a fundie
Quote:I did not post it, but I mentioned the fact of God drowning everyone in the great flood. Women, children, men, infants in their mother's arms. He said.."They were warned for 100 years and chose not to prepare". So it's okay then to commit genocide....
And without the Bible, only an ignoramus wouldn't know that natural disasters and hunger kill children daily. But as a naturalist this is not a "moral" issue, is it? Please explain.
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25-03-2013, 02:16 PM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 06:17 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: I sort of didn't believe it until I experienced an argument with a fundie
******

Those who administer and moderate in order to exercise personal agenda merely feed into the negative stereotype of Atheism
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25-03-2013, 02:26 PM
RE: I sort of didn't believe it until I experienced an argument with a fundie
Here is an answer from a Fundie regarding specific allegations.



Tom, it seems to me you are taking entirely too much of your opinion form the current TV showing
on the History Channel. The order of your criticisms follows the order of the program. In any case:

1. “Great Flood: Mass extermination of the entirety of humanity, save for a few who built the ark.”

As I told you before they were mercifully warned for over one hundred years that judgment was coming. They could have helped build the ark. They chose to do nothing. It is my prayer that you are not following in their footsteps. There is a second coming and now is the time for you to believe on the Lord Jesus. If God had judged them with no warning your point might have a bit more substance. As it stands you are in error.

2. “Basically anything Joshua did.”

Wrong. Joshua was at war with Caananites and they with him. The 31 cities are listed in the Book. He did not annihilate an unarmed people. A simple search on the internet would have answered your protest. By the way it’s odd that the only warfare that you object to are the ones where Jews are fighting. Why do you consciously ignore the Biblical accounts of what Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Rome, Syrian, Edomites, Ammonites, Philistines, Midianites, and a host of others did? Why are you preoccupied with Jewish warfare and nobady elses. Certainly by now you can see your own inconsistency?

3. “Commanding Abraham to kill is son.”

What are you talking about? Did Abraham kill his son. Did not God rather test his faith? Abraham said: “"The boy and I will travel a little farther. We will worship there, and then we will come right back.” Genesis 22:5 You are completely wrong again.

4. “Lot and the incestual relations with his daughters.”

The Bible doesn’t say God told the daughters to get their father drunk and have sex. The Bible records what happened. God didn’t tell David to commit adultery it records what happened. The Bible records many things both good and bad, but nowhere does it say that God approves of sin. Just like you insulting blasphemy against the name or the Lord God in your earlier comments. You chose to do that on your own. It is recorded on facebook but God didn’t make you do that. Now you will have to answer for your sins.

5. “Elisha having a bear maul 40 some odd children.”

Again if you had looked up the obvious you would have found the “children” were young adults or young men. Don’t you know that God refers to Jews as the “Children of Israel”? Does this mean they were all 4 year olds? Don’t you know that God refers to Christians as “The Children of God?”

I have no wish to verbally spar with you or enter into some pointless contention but I have to ask, why are you both so critical of things you know nothing about? Why are you too lazy to look them up? How long will you spit on the ONE who so passionately loves you? When will you stop lashing out at the Son of God who still has outstretched nail pierced hands offering you forgiveness, peace, new life and an eternal rest with HIM. You are deeply loved by HIM.

Your portrayal of HIM sound like the words of a man who has been deeply deeply hurt by someone. You sound like a soul who has endured much grief and is seeking to transfer that hurt to the feet of God. But God hasn’t hurt you at all. Please believe me when I tell you that you are misunderstanding so many things and missing the wonderful love of God that seeks at this very moment to heal you of whatever it may be that has bruised your heart and soul. Jesus still heals broken hearts.

Why are you still reading this line when it is obviously my signature line?
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25-03-2013, 02:41 PM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 06:18 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: I sort of didn't believe it until I experienced an argument with a fundie
******

Those who administer and moderate in order to exercise personal agenda merely feed into the negative stereotype of Atheism
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25-03-2013, 02:41 PM
RE: I sort of didn't believe it until I experienced an argument with a fundie
(25-03-2013 01:57 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I am not sure of your question, but If I understood correctly. I know that a flood likely never happened, but if it did, it would have been natural in origin. Followers of the Bible contest it was judgement from a angry god. If so, do they condone the execution by drowning of the entirety of civilization.
(25-03-2013 01:57 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:I did not post it, but I mentioned the fact of God drowning everyone in the great flood. Women, children, men, infants in their mother's arms. He said.."They were warned for 100 years and chose not to prepare". So it's okay then to commit genocide....
And without the Bible, only an ignoramus wouldn't know that natural disasters and hunger kill children daily. But as a naturalist this is not a "moral" issue, is it? Please explain.

Why are you still reading this line when it is obviously my signature line?
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25-03-2013, 02:55 PM
RE: I sort of didn't believe it until I experienced an argument with a fundie
Quote:Those were written later, son, as noted in the reference to the development of the akedah; though I will note that the tradition that Isaac got killed persists into modern times. I am unaware of how that claim helps you. If anything, it rather sinks you in that you acknowledge the commend. Your evasion of the Ezekiel passage is also noted.
What is your empirical evidence for JDEP theory? Altered copies of texts, please? Original source texts. You are towing the secularist party's line in saying they were written later without any evidence, right? Also, I don't understand what your objection is with Ezekiel 20? You WOULD sacrifice the firstborn and tithe on the first of produce, etc. and REDEEM firstborn children in lieu of a sacrifice. Does Ezekiel 20 mention the other 100 sacrifices that were demanded besides the firstborn? You're committing hermenuetical suicide by insisting firstborn children are in play here--especially since you are putting later dates on Ezekiel in and after diaspora, when the controlling empires would disallow such sacrifice among the Jews. What's angering you, no doubt, is that the redemption process is an early mention of every Atheist's favorite two words, SUBSTITUTIONARY ATONEMENT.
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26-03-2013, 10:54 AM
RE: I sort of didn't believe it until I experienced an argument with a fundie
Here is his last final installment of craziness: Remember, God is love? Right?

Suppose I am standing on the ark. (Just a word picture okay?) I am not on the deck of the ark waiting for the rain because I am righteous> I only got on to the ark because I went to God and said I am not worthy to ride your ark? So how would I get aboard O Lord. And HE would say to me: Larry, if you will receive my forgiveness by faith I will forgive you of all of your sin and you may go aboard. So then I turn to the Lord and say okay but what sacrifice or work do I perform to show you I am sincere and worthy to ride this ark? And God would say there is no sacrifice or work. How would you undo all the wrong you have done? How would you change all the evil that has passed through your heart and stuck to the inside of your soul like a filthy tar that you can’t reach or wash away? And I would say I can’t do that! I’m too sinful to enter the ark! And HE would answer “BUT I CAN!” So based on HIS grace and forgiveness I go aboard. But this is not even my main point to you Tom!

Now I am on the bridge of the ark and I am screaming, I am screaming, at the top of my lungs to you Tom, there are tears in my eyes, my throat is getting raw from screaming, but I will not shut up, I will not stop lifting my voice from the bridge to you Tom, I am yelling for all I am worth Tom, “THE RAIN IS COMING, THE RAIN IS COMING,” but GOD is good! He can forgive! He forgave a wayward sinner like me HE will do the same for you! Don’t let the people who are not on the ark try to describe the view you can only see when you are ON the ark!

Why are you still reading this line when it is obviously my signature line?
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26-03-2013, 11:07 AM
RE: I sort of didn't believe it until I experienced an argument with a fundie
It's as simple as this.

If the old testament was ancient Jewish law, then it no longer applies to anyone.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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26-03-2013, 11:39 AM
RE: I sort of didn't believe it until I experienced an argument with a fundie
Krazy Christee Wrote:Don’t let the people who are not on the ark try to describe the view you can only see when you are ON the ark!

Undecided Ooh... that mind is one lonely place.


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