I support Saudi Arabia because of Porn.
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28-10-2015, 08:42 PM
RE: I support Saudi Arabia because of Porn.
(28-10-2015 08:20 PM)epronovost Wrote:  I agree that there is a debate here to be had and because of restriction we can't have it (which I still consider correct). But we we both know what kind of thing we are talking about and frankly, considering the quantity of blatantly dominating/humiliating practices that have found there way into softcore porn on a regular basis, there is no need to argue about the fringe ones yet. It would also be good to mention that domination is domination no matter the sex of the dominated person or not. It just so happen that dominating/humiliative practice see women has dominated/humiliated more often than the other way around in the porn industry even if there is still a good quantity of the opposite (then again with the quantity of porn circulating around you can find a lot of everything.). This material has its place and niche in pornography and that place shouldn't be everywhere. The point 5 was about proper classification and honest advertising.

I'm really being honest here, I'm not sure what you are qualifying as dominating and humiliating. Especially in softcore porn, maybe I don't watch enough of it. As far as domination goes, from what I have seen is actually far heavier in the girl over guy scenarios than the other way around. Maybe we are talking about different kinds of domination though, I'm thinking whips and chains and lots of leather. Whatever the balance is, it's that way for a reason. More people like one or the other, and the market adjusts to fill those demands. Without being too graphic, Lets say we are talking about a porn that is about cheerleaders or something, and they have a 3 way in there with 2 guys and 1 girl, is that what you are talking about being humiliating? Are you saying they need to list every sex act contained within so people know exactly what they are getting?

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty. -Thomas Jefferson

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. -David Hume
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29-10-2015, 12:20 AM
RE: I support Saudi Arabia because of Porn.
(17-10-2015 10:13 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(17-10-2015 06:30 AM)epronovost Wrote:  I don't like her rethoric or some of her blanket statement (who are there mostly to make idiots talk about it more), but she presents some important critique of the porn industry. It is indeed too poorly regulated. If all porn types don't need to be banned (nor could it really), this indusrty does need to review its production and distribution model. There is rather frequent and serious mistreatment of pornstars, downright sexual explotation, humiliative practices are common outside of their niche material, it distribute itself through shady means frequently and promotes, under the guise of ignorance, rather unhealthy practices and perceptions. All in all, its an indusrty more corrupted than the banking one and even less regulated.

I agree.

I don't think you can even argue it's not exploitive. Arguing that most of these women are willing porn stars is like arguing that prostitutes aspired to that career as well. I'm sure there are people - both men and women - who make porn films are are happy to do so. But, I suspect that is not the majority.

Btw, this was published over 2 years ago. Not sure why it's coming up now.

I think her rhetoric is a little over the top, but I don't think her basic point here is wrong.

Having at one time worked in the industry on the retail end, and having met some of the starlets (in signings in my store), my opinion is that many of them had issues going into it, rather than issues resulting from it.

And I think that individual choice ought to be respected. Are women so weak they need protection? Are they not equal?
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29-10-2015, 05:14 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2015 08:18 PM by epronovost.)
RE: I support Saudi Arabia because of Porn.
@RinChi

Indeed, I am not refering to the staples of BDSM (chains, whips, leather/latex suits, sex dungeons, rape simulation, etc.). That stuff is pretty well labeled. I am talking about sexual practices that are extremely common in the BDSM sex culture, but practiced oustide of it and without all the BDSM background. That's why they are «sneaky» practices. BDSM doesn't need chains, whips, sex dungeons and latex/leather suits to be BDSM, but when the stereotypical scenary elements aren't there, it seems to be more frequently mislabeled. BDSM becomes caricatural and the rest pass under the radar. I would also mention that there is probably a little bit of priviledge blindness when it comes to porn and gender perception (not that I accuse you personnaly of being priviledge blind on occasion, but its rather frequent in the general public). Many might perceive a perticular sexual practice as more dominating when a women does it on a men then the other way around and I think that it might play a role in the misslabeling issues amongst other things.

PS: We should stop commenting here, we are going in a stupid debate where none of us can explai his point due to public constrain. Lets agree to remain watchful and critical (both in good and bad) of the porn industry.

@Thumpalumpacus

While you might be right about the particular starlets you have met, the surveys that both RinChi and I have read seems to present pornstar as generaly healthier mentaly (they do seem to consume more recreative drugs) than the average person, at least during their earlier years/at the beginning of their carrier, then things get murkier. Those problems don't affect only women. In fact, male pornstar are about just as affected by the various malpractice of the porn industry then the female ones (see my point 1 and 2). The critics of the porn industry based on the treatment of their actors isn't a specifically feminist issue in my opinion, even if very few people actively critique (or reward) the porn industry beside them.

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30-10-2015, 07:31 AM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2015 07:37 AM by RinChi.)
RE: I support Saudi Arabia because of Porn.
(29-10-2015 05:14 PM)epronovost Wrote:  PS: We should stop commenting here, we are going in a stupid debate where none of us can explai his point due to public constrain. Lets agree to remain watchful and critical (both in good and bad) of the porn industry.

Agreed. It's been a pleasure, and I also just want to let you know you swayed me on condoms being required, I still feel it's an infringement on free speech, and I still don't think it should be legislated by government, but the comparison to hard hats on a construction site is an apt one, and I found it hard to disagree with. Especially with the knowledge that legal brothels require them as well.

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty. -Thomas Jefferson

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. -David Hume
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30-10-2015, 05:49 PM
RE: I support Saudi Arabia because of Porn.
(30-10-2015 07:31 AM)RinChi Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 05:14 PM)epronovost Wrote:  PS: We should stop commenting here, we are going in a stupid debate where none of us can explai his point due to public constrain. Lets agree to remain watchful and critical (both in good and bad) of the porn industry.

Agreed. It's been a pleasure, and I also just want to let you know you swayed me on condoms being required, I still feel it's an infringement on free speech, and I still don't think it should be legislated by government, but the comparison to hard hats on a construction site is an apt one, and I found it hard to disagree with. Especially with the knowledge that legal brothels require them as well.

I am happy I convinced you of something even if its a bit small and you have been a good conversation partner. It's never good in my opinion to be dogmatic about anything (even what appears to be virtuous). Free speech is a fondamental right, but it always had limits to protect various member of the society or social convention. You can't scream insanities at 3am in a residential area or you will be charged with public disturbence. You can't threaten or intimidate people just like that, neither can you spread lies (or even truths in a certain context) to ruin someone reputation or social standing.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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