I think I may quit church.
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28-09-2013, 10:41 PM
RE: I think I may quit church.
(28-09-2013 10:35 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Heh, atheists giving me great advice about praying Smile

Well, come on now. A lot of us weren't always atheists, just like you weren't always a believer. We understand each other, we're human. Yes

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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28-09-2013, 10:47 PM
RE: I think I may quit church.
I feel for ya, man.
If you need somrthing, remember we're here for you

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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29-09-2013, 02:00 AM
RE: I think I may quit church.
I'm sorry to hear that things aren't going well at your church. For me, 24 years of this sort of hurtful behavior at various churches was a key factor in my deconversion. As a believer, I always thought the Holy Spirit would help Xians rise above such pettiness, but it never seemed to work out that way.

Anyway, it's not my desire to kick you while you are down. You seem like a decent fellow, so I wish you the best, and whatever path you take, I hope you find a good group of folks to share it with - good luck! Smile
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29-09-2013, 02:24 AM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2013 02:28 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: I think I may quit church.
(28-09-2013 08:19 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  It's a shame too... the church I attend is an awesome church; doctrinely sound. Great people, great pastor.

But, Jess and I's hearts aren't in it anymore. It's several factors, really.

The two big ones are what happened at my last church, and what just happened last week with my brother.

The senior pastor at my brother's church forced him to resign because he felt my brother's personality didn't match what he thought a family life minister should be.

Apparently, they want someone that will coddle the congregation and BS them instead of preaching doctrine. My brother is more of an introvert than me... and that's saying a lot; however, he teaches and preaches what would be considered "truth" in Christianity.

I'm so disgusted with Christians right now. I can't stand to be around them. Both Jess and me are completely jaded.

Over the past couple of years, I have seen so much evil pour from Christians that it's nauseating. On the flip side, in the past two years, I have seen so much love, acceptance, and concern pour from you atheists that it has helped me make it through.

I can honestly say that it wasn't my Christian friends that helped me through some of my hardest times in my existence; no, it was my atheist brothers and sisters that held me and comforted me in times of extreme trouble.

I want nothing to do with Christians or their church. They can keep it. I don't need them to show me Christ. Christ shows through you lovely people.

The bad part is I want to raise my kids in church, but I can't justify anymore exposing them to this hypocrisy. They are going to see and feel so much evil in their lives that it's wrong for me to force them to be fooled by a guise which the church dresses up as "Christianity".

I can teach my children about Christ and His love without tainting their view of how Christians are supposed to act.

Good riddance to bad rubbish, I suppose.

I know some of you may be thinking this is my step towards atheism... it isn't. My belief and trust in Christ is strong and true... I've just lost all attachment to those that claim His name and practice evil.

Besides... would y'all really want me to become an atheist? It would just seem to... weird... right?

I don't know... just been a tough year... lots and lots of personal family issues... my grandmother dying in February... my grandfather dying today... the ordeal at my old church... me losing my job... my brother losing his job... these things have just kind of made for a melancholy outlook as of late.

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That's good! You've take your first step into a much larger world.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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29-09-2013, 03:50 AM
RE: I think I may quit church.
KC has more faith in Atheists than he has in Christians Big Grin Tongue

I am sorry that your Christian family isn't being very supportive. You have good reason to feel the way you do. I've met few Christians who don't use their religion to justify their irrational and often harmful beliefs.

Sorry to hear about your Grandpappy and your brother as well. As for your 'first step toward atheism'. Pfft. As long as you are of good character (and I think you are) believe whatever the hell you want. No skin off my nose. I'm glad your part of the 'TTA family'. You positively affect the community and I'm glad that you feel that we positively affect one another.

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29-09-2013, 06:58 AM
RE: I think I may quit church.
(28-09-2013 08:19 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  It's a shame too... the church I attend is an awesome church; doctrinely sound. Great people, great pastor.

But, Jess and I's hearts aren't in it anymore. It's several factors, really.

The two big ones are what happened at my last church, and what just happened last week with my brother.

The senior pastor at my brother's church forced him to resign because he felt my brother's personality didn't match what he thought a family life minister should be.

Apparently, they want someone that will coddle the congregation and BS them instead of preaching doctrine. My brother is more of an introvert than me... and that's saying a lot; however, he teaches and preaches what would be considered "truth" in Christianity.

I'm so disgusted with Christians right now. I can't stand to be around them. Both Jess and me are completely jaded.

Over the past couple of years, I have seen so much evil pour from Christians that it's nauseating. On the flip side, in the past two years, I have seen so much love, acceptance, and concern pour from you atheists that it has helped me make it through.

I can honestly say that it wasn't my Christian friends that helped me through some of my hardest times in my existence; no, it was my atheist brothers and sisters that held me and comforted me in times of extreme trouble.

I want nothing to do with Christians or their church. They can keep it. I don't need them to show me Christ. Christ shows through you lovely people.

The bad part is I want to raise my kids in church, but I can't justify anymore exposing them to this hypocrisy. They are going to see and feel so much evil in their lives that it's wrong for me to force them to be fooled by a guise which the church dresses up as "Christianity".

I can teach my children about Christ and His love without tainting their view of how Christians are supposed to act.

Good riddance to bad rubbish, I suppose.

I know some of you may be thinking this is my step towards atheism... it isn't. My belief and trust in Christ is strong and true... I've just lost all attachment to those that claim His name and practice evil.

Besides... would y'all really want me to become an atheist? It would just seem to... weird... right?

I don't know... just been a tough year... lots and lots of personal family issues... my grandmother dying in February... my grandfather dying today... the ordeal at my old church... me losing my job... my brother losing his job... these things have just kind of made for a melancholy outlook as of late.

I would say that you are disgusted with all of this because you see irrational and anti-human behaviors from these people.

This is what you get from ideologues who lack critical thinking skills. This is what you get from poorly educated people who depend on belief instead of evidence.

Yes, you are getting closer to giving up your delusion. I have faith in that. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-09-2013, 07:08 AM
RE: I think I may quit church.
(29-09-2013 06:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  ...
This is what you get
...

You know which section of the forum you are in, right?

You are supposed to say "Ah, there, there, diddums" before doing a 'deadly' and stating the bleeding obvious.

Tongue

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29-09-2013, 07:15 AM
RE: I think I may quit church.
Well, you gotta think about why individual people are in organized church.

Belief isn't it, you need belief in order to belong to a church, but you don't need a church in order to have belief.

The "holier than thou" attitude of many churches makes a lot of people, who otherwise lead insignificant lives, feel more important.

That makes it a competition of who is holiest. Now you have judgmental people engage in gossip and so some of the members are always targeted and their standing in the church is undermined. You can't be holier than anyone if there is no one who fails to measure up.

It's not really a good societal construct IMO. There is competition in other communities like the girl or boy scouts etc. But I don't think it's as unfair as the churches because the competitive items are not personality driven, they are skill driven.

Keeping the faith without belonging to a church makes it a lot more personal. Are you strong enough for that?

As far as a community for your children, what is wrong with nice secular ones? I am not familiar with what all is out there, the boy scouts and girl scouts are there, and I assume many others. They give some structure to kids and parents alike and afford many ways for parents to get involved. And you will find fellow religious folk there, and you will share goals and a purpose with them. Isn't that what you are looking for?

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29-09-2013, 07:16 AM
RE: I think I may quit church.
(29-09-2013 07:08 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(29-09-2013 06:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  ...
This is what you get
...

You know which section of the forum you are in, right?

You are supposed to say "Ah, there, there, diddums" before doing a 'deadly' and stating the bleeding obvious.

Tongue

I think Jeremy will get it.

That was warm and I was stating the obvious. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-09-2013, 07:31 AM
RE: I think I may quit church.
(28-09-2013 08:19 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm so disgusted with Christians right now. I can't stand to be around them.

Over the past couple of years, I have seen so much evil pour from Christians that it's nauseating.

I can honestly say that it wasn't my Christian friends that helped me through some of my hardest times in my existence; no, it was my atheist brothers and sisters that held me and comforted me in times of extreme trouble.

I want nothing to do with Christians or their church.

The bad part is I want to raise my kids in church, but I can't justify anymore exposing them to this hypocrisy. They are going to see and feel so much evil in their lives that it's wrong for me to force them to be fooled by a guise which the church dresses up as "Christianity".

I can teach my children about Christ and His love without tainting their view of how Christians are supposed to act.
KC,
I slept on this, thought about it, and pared down your post a bit to what relates to your kids and how to raise them.

Read these excerpts. I think you and Jess can to a fine job of raising the kids by showing them how to be good people without exposing then to the hypocrisy that often shows up in church communities. Lead by example.

If nothing else, you know that good people aren't only those that follow a religious doctrine.

Take some time, think about it and just 'practice what you preach' when it comes to the kids.

At some point you may find a church that works for your family...or not.

Just some thoughts.
A

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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