I think the golden rule is crap.
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29-10-2013, 12:40 PM
I think the golden rule is crap.
I think the biggest ordeal of elementary school for me was getting into an argument with a teacher about the golden rule. I told him it made no sense to me. He got mad and called my parents, and I got in huge trouble. Oh man, that was probably the biggest mistake I made between ages 0-14.
So now I am an adult and I still feel the same way. I have seen the golden rule mentioned a lot in the last couple days, so I just thought I would share how I feel about it.
People are so different from each other. Why would we ever think it was nice or even okay to treat someone else the way we want to be treated? I don't want to be treated the way you want to be treated. I prefer to be treated the way I want to be treated. I don't understand why people don't bring this up more. I don't understand how it isn't obvious. Why on earth isn't the golden rule; treat others the way they would have you treat them??
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29-10-2013, 12:50 PM
RE: I think the golden rule is crap.
(29-10-2013 12:40 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I think the biggest ordeal of elementary school for me was getting into an argument with a teacher about the golden rule. I told him it made no sense to me. He got mad and called my parents, and I got in huge trouble. Oh man, that was probably the biggest mistake I made between ages 0-14.
So now I am an adult and I still feel the same way. I have seen the golden rule mentioned a lot in the last couple days, so I just thought I would share how I feel about it.
People are so different from each other. Why would we ever think it was nice or even okay to treat someone else the way we want to be treated? I don't want to be treated the way you want to be treated. I prefer to be treated the way I want to be treated. I don't understand why people don't bring this up more. I don't understand how it isn't obvious. Why on earth isn't the golden rule; treat others the way they would have you treat them??

I dont know why that confused the hell out of me. Consider

so the bible golden rule is
So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them
I think that rule would get me slapped a lot and arrested.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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29-10-2013, 01:01 PM
RE: I think the golden rule is crap.
(29-10-2013 12:50 PM)sporehux Wrote:  
(29-10-2013 12:40 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I think the biggest ordeal of elementary school for me was getting into an argument with a teacher about the golden rule. I told him it made no sense to me. He got mad and called my parents, and I got in huge trouble. Oh man, that was probably the biggest mistake I made between ages 0-14.
So now I am an adult and I still feel the same way. I have seen the golden rule mentioned a lot in the last couple days, so I just thought I would share how I feel about it.
People are so different from each other. Why would we ever think it was nice or even okay to treat someone else the way we want to be treated? I don't want to be treated the way you want to be treated. I prefer to be treated the way I want to be treated. I don't understand why people don't bring this up more. I don't understand how it isn't obvious. Why on earth isn't the golden rule; treat others the way they would have you treat them??

I dont know why that confused the hell out of me. Consider

so the bible golden rule is
So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them
I think that rule would get me slapped a lot and arrested.

Your version is hard for me to follow but yes, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

And yes that is my point. There are many things that I want others to do to me, but I don't necessarily think they would appreciate if I did it to them. And vice versa
The golden rule is flawed.
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29-10-2013, 01:01 PM
RE: I think the golden rule is crap.
(29-10-2013 12:40 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Why on earth isn't the golden rule; treat others the way they would have you treat them??

Exactly! I like the way Dan Barker illustrated the problem.

What happens when a man who loves back rubs marries a woman who hates them? He'll be giving her back rubs she doesn't want, and she won't be giving him the back rubs he does.

As a side note, my almost biggest ordeal in elementary school was when I spelled "S-H-I-T" to a friend on the playground. After he told on me, the teacher pulled me aside and asked "Can-of-Beans, did you say 'shit?'" Fortunately I talked my way out of it and claimed I was talking about my friend named Schmidt at church. 8 year old: 1, Teacher: 0.

I'd say if your teacher had to resort to tattling on you to your parents, then you won that exchange too. Smile

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

-Rowan Atkinson
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29-10-2013, 01:09 PM
RE: I think the golden rule is crap.
(29-10-2013 01:01 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  
(29-10-2013 12:40 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Why on earth isn't the golden rule; treat others the way they would have you treat them??

Exactly! I like the way Dan Barker illustrated the problem.

What happens when a man who loves back rubs marries a woman who hates them? He'll be giving her back rubs she doesn't want, and she won't be giving him the back rubs he does.

As a side note, my almost biggest ordeal in elementary school was when I spelled "S-H-I-T" to a friend on the playground. After he told on me, the teacher pulled me aside and asked "Can-of-Beans, did you say 'shit?'" Fortunately I talked my way out of it and claimed I was talking about my friend named Schmidt at church. 8 year old: 1, Teacher: 0.

I'd say if your teacher had to resort to tattling on you to your parents, then you won that exchange too. Smile

You may be right, but it didn't feel like it at the time lol. Disrespecting a teacher was a serious offensive which had severe consequences. But challenging the teachings of the bible. Well that was sinful and evil *shivers* my parents were so mad.
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29-10-2013, 01:12 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2013 01:18 PM by ClydeLee.)
Re: I think the golden rule is crap.
It's flawed in many grounds... If a masochist follows the golden rule, he will act like a sadist.

I always was more apt to follow and enjoy "the silver rule" as some call it, which I learned from taosim or confucianism.. I don't recall which. That goes as, "Don't do onto others as you don't want done onto yourself" it won't apply to everything but it's a more sound principal if you judge morality in that contextual frame.

The best principal of this concept is refereed to as, The Platinum Rule which goes as, "Do onto others as others want done onto themselves" simply, give the person what they want. Of course, that's a lot harder in reality than in formula; hence, the booming relationship advice field and all that relevant jazz.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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29-10-2013, 01:12 PM
RE: I think the golden rule is crap.
I think it's flawed because I definitely don't want girlyman doing stuff to others that he'd want done. Yikes! Who knows how that'd go. High heels and whips, all that lotion... it'd get weird fast!

Laughat

I think fundamentally that most people know things that they know from a social perspective are and are not okay. Obviously it's not a good idea to go around stabbing people, or kicking them in the nuts, or being an asshole.

Actions at a social level and group mentality that "the group" feel are acceptable. And of course, when people are comfortable with each other, things are communicated what they are ok with being treated as and not okay.

I think it's safe to say though that there's things that are "socially acceptable" at a group level (public).

From a societal level, there are things that make sense for survival of the species and things that make sense for the benefit of those we care about. So of course, we're nice to those we like and accept, we're assholes (well, some of us) to those we don't. They may be socially shunned or socially accepted.

I would be interested from an evolutionary perspective on the behaviors of the human species and why some actions are "okay" and others "not okay" from a base level. How this or that fits into survival of our daily lives, how some make no sense and others do. I think it's easy for someone to say, "Well of course you do x y or z, everyone knows that, it just makes sense." but... why?

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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29-10-2013, 01:21 PM
RE: I think the golden rule is crap.
(29-10-2013 01:09 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  You may be right, but it didn't feel like it at the time lol. Disrespecting a teacher was a serious offensive which had severe consequences. But challenging the teachings of the bible. Well that was sinful and evil *shivers* my parents were so mad.

Just imagine what would have happened if you told them you could write a better list of Ten Commandments too... Shocking

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

-Rowan Atkinson
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29-10-2013, 01:27 PM
RE: I think the golden rule is crap.
(29-10-2013 01:21 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  
(29-10-2013 01:09 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  You may be right, but it didn't feel like it at the time lol. Disrespecting a teacher was a serious offensive which had severe consequences. But challenging the teachings of the bible. Well that was sinful and evil *shivers* my parents were so mad.

Just imagine what would have happened if you told them you could write a better list of Ten Commandments too... Shocking

Considering most of them have to do with a jealous, angry, bitter, resentful, pitifully insecure and primitive god's vanity... it wouldn't be hard to do that. Step one, remove everything to do with a god's vanity... step two, insert anything about how to not be an asshole to other people.

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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29-10-2013, 01:28 PM
RE: I think the golden rule is crap.
(29-10-2013 01:12 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  It's flawed in many grounds... If a masochist follows the golden rule, he will act like a sadist.

I always was more apt to follow and enjoy "the silver rule" as some call it, which I learned from taosim or confucianism.. I don't recall which. That goes as, "Don't do onto others as you don't want done onto yourself" it won't apply to everything but it's a more sound principal if you judge morality in that contextual frame.

The best principal of this concept is refereed to as, The Platinum Rule which goes as, "Do onto others as others want done onto themselves" simply, give the person what they want. Of course, that's a lot harder in reality than in formula; hence, the booming relationship advice field and all that relevant jazz.

My best example against this "silver rule" is heterosexual sex. How would that work? My hypothetical (I don't have one :'( wahhh) sexual partner does not want anyone to shove a penis in him, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't do it to me because I would love that.
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