I think therefore I am
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26-02-2014, 10:26 AM
I think therefore I am
There is a section where people criticize this assumption. But I don't see how it is possible to criticize it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito_ergo_sum#Criticisms

I agree with Descartes that doubting my own existence would require a doubter. Because if doubt does exist then a doubter does exist. How can doubt exist without a doubter?
Nietzsche seems to confuse the problem with the problem of other minds. Other minds might not exist but mine does because if my mind would not exist there wouldn't be a mind to do the thinking.
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26-02-2014, 10:28 AM
RE: I think therefore I am
What is thinking?

How do you know you are thinking?

... this is my signature!
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26-02-2014, 10:32 AM
RE: I think therefore I am
(26-02-2014 10:28 AM)cjlr Wrote:  What is thinking?

How do you know you are thinking?

I think that I think. Which means that I think. How can I think that I don't think? That's a contradiction is it not?
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26-02-2014, 11:15 AM
RE: I think therefore I am
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(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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26-02-2014, 11:19 AM
RE: I think therefore I am
Well he did exist for a while didn't he? Laughat
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26-02-2014, 11:32 AM
Re: RE: I think therefore I am
(26-02-2014 10:32 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
(26-02-2014 10:28 AM)cjlr Wrote:  What is thinking?

How do you know you are thinking?

I think that I think. Which means that I think. How can I think that I don't think? That's a contradiction is it not?

But what is thinking, and how valid is your conclusion of your own mental processes.

It's not exactly stable if you go beyond the form of what creates the doubt. Of course it's the brain, although, why does doubt require a valid doubter? Can a fictional or false existence not appear to have valid doubts as well?

Regardless, I prefer Dostoevsky's line of, I speak nonsense, therefore I'm human.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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26-02-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: I think therefore I am
(26-02-2014 11:32 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(26-02-2014 10:32 AM)donotwant Wrote:  I think that I think. Which means that I think. How can I think that I don't think? That's a contradiction is it not?

But what is thinking, and how valid is your conclusion of your own mental processes.

It's not exactly stable if you go beyond the form of what creates the doubt. Of course it's the brain, although, why does doubt require a valid doubter? Can a fictional or false existence not appear to have valid doubts as well?

Regardless, I prefer Dostoevsky's line of, I speak nonsense, therefore I'm human.
If doubt does not require a doubter how can it exist then?
Somebody who doesn't exist can doubt his own existence?
Somebody who doesn't exist can't doubt anything because he doesn't exist.
Or you suggest that doubt can somehow exist on it's own.
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26-02-2014, 03:10 PM
RE: I think therefore I am
"I think, therefore I am."
"I doubt that."
"You doubt, therefore YOU are. You're also a contrarian jerk."
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26-02-2014, 03:35 PM
RE: I think therefore I am
It seems to me to be somewhat arrogant of humans to use this phrase "I think, therefore I am"

It makes it appear that we are the only ones that 'think'.

To me a better way to look at it is 'I'm conscious, therefore I'm am' , as are most living creatures. If they didnt have consciousness, then why does every animal retreat or attack to preserve itself... to continue to 'be'. We see animals 'thinking' all the time, working out details, even in groups, all the time.

To what degree we 'think' is an illusion of the ego, and more so would be nothing more than consciousness of a species that indeed 'is'.

Just my hypothesis on something I've thought about many times.

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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26-02-2014, 03:44 PM
RE: I think therefore I am
(26-02-2014 03:35 PM)War Horse Wrote:  It seems to me to be somewhat arrogant of humans to use this phrase "I think, therefore I am"

It makes it appear that we are the only ones that 'think'.

To me a better way to look at it is 'I'm conscious, therefore I'm am' , as are most living creatures. If they didnt have consciousness, then why does every animal retreat or attack to preserve itself... to continue to 'be'. We see animals 'thinking' all the time, working out details, even in groups, all the time.

To what degree we 'think' is an illusion of the ego, and more so would be nothing more than consciousness of a species that indeed 'is'.

Just my hypothesis on something I've thought about many times.

They react to stimuli in ways that allow them to survive simply because that's the way the species evolved. When they were more primitive, the organisms that didn't preserve themselves died out. If modern animals didn't react that way, they wouldn't be here. That doesn't mean that they "think" in the same way we do.

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