I took the bait... burden of proof.
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02-06-2016, 04:22 PM
RE: I took the bait... burden of proof.
A good thought @Bucky Ball. And I did just that at some point yesterday. He ignored me lol.

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02-06-2016, 04:48 PM
RE: I took the bait... burden of proof.
(02-06-2016 02:04 PM)Icextentialist Wrote:  Well, I made the mistake of taking the bait on a video posted to a friend's Facebook feed. Actually had a productive discussion... until his friend jumped in and started questioning my understanding of "truth" and I called him on nitpicking my semantics. I used the word truth colloquially to mean "scientific fact" whereas he can only understand truth which comes forth from his absolute truth of God, therefore God (or something similarly circular). 3 days and much headache later (sometimes due in part to my lack of familiarity with finer points of scripture), I've discovered they're both born again Christians with no actual interest in investigating the world about them and all they would like to do is evangelize the masses. What have I done... Big Grin

The reactions to my blasphemy have been great, but one on two in a Facebook conversation is just exhausting so I think the discussion has run its course. The lack of understanding on their side of the conversation in the differences between circular reasoning and deductive/iterative reasoning and the concept of statistical uncertainty in logical arguments was astounding. Many a facepalm has occurred while reading their responses. However, I did learn some valuable lessons for the next time I talk to a Christian apologist. Assume they know absolutely nothing, including: everyday words may have colloquial uses conflicting with a worldview that invites absolute truth as a starting point; absolute sentences are not understood, as in normal chats, to have understood uncertainty and this uncertainty needs to be pointed out.... over and over and over; broadly-accepted scientific evidence against one of their claims will not be accepted so long as any Christian scientist has said otherwise, even when 99.9% of their peers disagree (including old earth Christians when arguing against a young earth); when you can't get them to go outside the Bible for evidence, all arguments are futile (an absolute statement that I don't consider absolutely true... uncertainty hopefully just understood here).

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I saw a quote and I'm sorry I don't remember where but it was attributed to Benjamin Franklin. "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason". That's exactly what they have done, though no doubt they would protest this assessment. That's what you're up against. To my way of thinking you either ascribe to a model of knowledge that looks outward to the facts of reality, identifying and validating them to the best of your ability, or you turn inward and give feelings, emotions and wishful thinking primacy over facts. You can't reason with those that have shut the eye of reason.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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02-06-2016, 04:51 PM
RE: I took the bait... burden of proof.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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02-06-2016, 04:52 PM
RE: I took the bait... burden of proof.
Don't let them control the conversation by allowing only their definition of words. If you stick to your ground they'll give up that lame attack.
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02-06-2016, 05:08 PM
RE: I took the bait... burden of proof.
(02-06-2016 04:52 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Don't let them control the conversation by allowing only their definition of words. If you stick to your ground they'll give up that lame attack.
You assume they have the humility to admit that any aspect of their "truths" might, in fact, be false. Which is the runaround he used to dodge any of my own attacks since the conversation started. I honestly don't have that kind of patience, to wait out his ignorance of word usages.

Edit: Not to mention, I don't know the contentious buttinsky personally so I have no investment in keeping him happy. My blasphemous ways were enough to have him riled and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

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02-06-2016, 05:23 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 05:35 PM by Shai Hulud.)
RE: I took the bait... burden of proof.
(02-06-2016 02:36 PM)Icextentialist Wrote:  https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=jJbK3RBKj0E

In case you can stand the burden of proof video...

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...what did I just watch? That doesn't even approach proving anything and starts creating its own ideas like an "Implied Creator Paradox".

Edit: Wow, a video from the same folks, saying pretty much all modern preachers are heretics and liars, because "The Apostolic Age has ended" and "Don't trust them, even if they don't use the word Apostle". Your friend and friend's friend sure have some...interesting...videos they enjoy.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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