I've Often Wondered....
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20-09-2011, 10:29 PM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2011 10:38 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: I've Often Wondered....
(20-09-2011 09:50 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Chapters 13 and 18 of Deuteronomy tell how to detect two kinds of false prophets.

So I should defer legislation of logical validity back to a people who were not yet sufficiently capable of even discriminating "true" from "false"? (George Boole) Why in God's name would I ever even bother considering such a thing?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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21-09-2011, 09:31 AM
RE: I've Often Wondered....
(20-09-2011 05:49 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Anyways I also like how it goes on to detail how to deal with one of these false prophets... Kill them. And kill em good. Good old God. So ready to dish out kill orders isn't he?

The command to kill false prophets was given to Israel, which we a nation and had the authority to punish wrongdoers. God hasn't given Christians the authority to put anyone to death but we can still follow these guidelines in detecting false prophets. Perhaps this will help clarify the difference between the commands given to Israel and those given to Christians today.

http://www.christiandoctrinediscussion.c...ament.html

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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21-09-2011, 10:07 AM
RE: I've Often Wondered....
Oh it's ok Theo, I don't particularly care who god gave the licence to kill to. Does it matter?

I'm not even against killing when it counts to be honest, but I like the irony of the whole situation. I'll lay it out for everyone though I'm sure we all already get it.

God, creator of all things and people, dude who is suppose to love us and want us to be good, not only wants people to die often if the records in the bible are to be believed, but sometimes doesn't want to do it himself so he recruits people to kill each other thus breaking one of his commandments. God is a floating contradiction and kind of lazy isn't he?

Don't kill, unless I say it's ok. Guzzah? ? ? ? ? ? ?

But you said it's not ok. But if you say it's ok it's ok? ? ? ? ? ?

What are the fucking rules? I would assume that if the bibles are true, then everyone goes to hell. No one knows the rules which is why there are so many different sects within each cult that bicker with each other about the rules. So no one is right and we all go to hell. Or it's one big test and we all go to heaven? Or the most likely scenario, it ain't fucking true. We all rot in the ground or get burnt to ashes. We only have one life to live so enjoy it and protect it.

For the record I am not pro murder, but sometimes there are no other options and someone has to make those choices, which is why I think murder is handled so poorly in the bibles, simply because we know it's bad, but bad doesn't always mean unnecessary.

Anyway this should be another thread and probably is, so back to the topic of mental gymnastics to believe what you already said you don't believe. And vice versa. Smile

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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21-09-2011, 10:23 AM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2011 10:49 AM by Peterkin.)
RE: I've Often Wondered....
Josue ch 11, v 20
Quote: For it was the design of the Lord to encourage them to wage war against Israel, that they might be doomed to destruction and thus receive no mercy, but be exterminated, as the Lord had commanded Moses.

In case you wonder whether this is really god-driven genocide, the rest of the books describes it in detail and it's all related also in Deutoronomy.


How they get their heads around all this contradiction is by compartmentalizing. You put the biblical laws in one room, federal laws in another; Jesus-the-false-prophet (whom the Jews had no choice but to put to death, according to the same book that later gives xtians their canon, but for which - god-mandated, necessary act - they blame the Jews anyway) goes into a closet under the stair of the hallway marked Jesus-the-saviour; Lot's daughters in a small upstairs bedroom; David's friendship with Jonathan in another; Abram and Sara's badger-game under a wardrobe someplace.
And, of course, by ignoring the nasty parts. The way we're not supposed to mention Uncle Dudley and his shoe collection.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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22-09-2011, 09:58 AM
RE: I've Often Wondered....
(21-09-2011 10:07 AM)lucradis Wrote:  I would assume that if the bibles are true, then everyone goes to hell.

This is close to the truth. Everyone deserves to go to hell because none of us has lived up to what we know is true. No one will be condemned for violating a rule he didn't know about but each person will be judged on the basis of what he did know.

Quote:For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
Romans 2:12 ESV

God has provided a way we can be forgiven for our sins but we can't receive forgiveness until we first recognize our need for it.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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22-09-2011, 11:54 AM
RE: I've Often Wondered....
Forgive me if I'm dense here Theo but isn't the whole we will never be punished for breaking a rule we didn't know about, a great argument against practicing religion in the first place? I mean if we don't spread the word then no one knows and therefore cannot be punished for breaking the bibles rules right? I mean wouldn't that be the ultimate sacrifice for those who know now to not spread the word thereby sentencing themselves to hell but saving all future generations? And wouldn't sacrificing themselves also guarantee them a place in heaven too? Loophole.

I think I just saved the world.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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23-09-2011, 04:55 AM
RE: I've Often Wondered....
(22-09-2011 11:54 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Forgive me if I'm dense here Theo but isn't the whole we will never be punished for breaking a rule we didn't know about, a great argument against practicing religion in the first place? I mean if we don't spread the word then no one knows and therefore cannot be punished for breaking the bibles rules right? I mean wouldn't that be the ultimate sacrifice for those who know now to not spread the word thereby sentencing themselves to hell but saving all future generations? And wouldn't sacrificing themselves also guarantee them a place in heaven too? Loophole.

I think I just saved the world.

Even better, we should gather up all the Bibles in the world and destroy them, that way no one could pass on the knowledge to the next generation. We could guarantee that no one would ever go to hell ever again. I think it is a plan! Angel

“There is no sin except stupidity.” Oscar Wilde
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23-09-2011, 08:32 AM
RE: I've Often Wondered....
Danger! Danger!
Book-burning? Sounds too much like them. Let's don't go there!

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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23-09-2011, 11:07 AM
RE: I've Often Wondered....
(22-09-2011 11:54 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Forgive me if I'm dense here Theo but isn't the whole we will never be punished for breaking a rule we didn't know about, a great argument against practicing religion in the first place?

Everyone has an innate sense of right and wrong whether they have had any religious instruction or not. No one has fully lived up to what he knows is right and so he is guilty of sins that need to be forgiven. Some people manage to suppress this knowledge and push it out of their conscious mind but it still exists.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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23-09-2011, 11:09 AM
RE: I've Often Wondered....
But if they are never told and never hear of it, do they go to heaven or hell?

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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