I've been thinking .......
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12-04-2013, 08:50 PM
I've been thinking .......
........ and I've come to the conclusion that I cannot criticise many of the theists that come here trying to preach.

I imagined myself walking along next to a train track and seeing someone stood on that track with a freight train coming toward them. This person claims not to believe that the train can harm them and so refuses to move despite my warnings. In such a scenario I would do everything in my power to prevent that person coming to harm, even if I had to drag them kicking and screaming away from the train, and their protests that they didn't believe the train could hurt them would do nothing to deter me. I've decided that that is how I view a lot of theists who join this forum. They truly believe we will go to Hell unless we find God and are trying to prevent it and I cannot condemn them for having concern for me.

Now, before anyone trys to tell me this is totally different, it totally isn't. The probability of the train causing damage compared to the existence of God is irrelevant. As is the empirical evidence for trains being lethal, the dubious claims of various religions, and our belief that God isn't real. Their actions are motivated by their beliefs, and they truly believe God exists and we will go to Hell if we don't believe in him.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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12-04-2013, 09:00 PM
RE: I've been thinking .......
(12-04-2013 08:50 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  ........ and I've come to the conclusion that I cannot criticise many of the theists that come here trying to preach.

I imagined myself walking along next to a train track and seeing someone stood on that track with a freight train coming toward them. This person claims not to believe that the train can harm them and so refuses to move despite my warnings. In such a scenario I would do everything in my power to prevent that person coming to harm, even if I had to drag them kicking and screaming away from the train, and their protests that they didn't believe the train could hurt them would do nothing to deter me. I've decided that that is how I view a lot of theists who join this forum. They truly believe we will go to Hell unless we find God and are trying to prevent it and I cannot condemn them for having concern for me.

Now, before anyone trys to tell me this is totally different, it totally isn't. The probability of the train causing damage compared to the existence of God is irrelevant. As is the empirical evidence for trains being lethal, the dubious claims of various religions, and our belief that God isn't real. Their actions are motivated by their beliefs, and they truly believe God exists and we will go to Hell if we don't believe in him.

Their reasons for coming here, if as selfless as you are claiming, is not the issue. Egor, Pleasejesus, Heywood all make exaggerated claims and then backtrack on them for 50 pages over a dozen threads. Its the intellectual dishonesty and the word games they play that are the issue. KC is as much a theist as the others yet he does not play games he answers questions to the best that he can and admits when he doesn't have an answer. As much as I disagree with KC I consider him not an adversary not some boogeyman troll but just a guy doing the best he can and taking a lot of flak for doing so. To quote God's big book of bad idea's "You shall know a mans works by the the fruit they produce"

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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12-04-2013, 09:01 PM
RE: I've been thinking .......
I think some are caring...I think there are a lot who are sanctimonious asshats.

I try not to lump all into the latter category. KC I think belongs in the former category. I think he truly cares..


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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12-04-2013, 09:03 PM
RE: I've been thinking .......
(12-04-2013 08:50 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  ........ and I've come to the conclusion that I cannot criticise many of the theists that come here trying to preach.

They truly believe we will go to Hell unless we find God and are trying to prevent it and I cannot condemn them for having concern for me.

I may understand your reasoning if it was only regarding family, however I'm not convinced that the concerns of theists coming onto this board are legitimate. Any opposition to their beliefs threaten their world-view and bring it into question and they also believe that they've been instructed by their god to save souls on his behalf. They're not worried about you, they're worried about themselves.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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12-04-2013, 09:08 PM
RE: I've been thinking .......
(12-04-2013 09:00 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Their reasons for coming here, if as selfless as you are claiming, is not the issue. Egor, Pleasejesus, Heywood all make exaggerated claims and then backtrack on them for 50 pages over a dozen threads. Its the intellectual dishonesty and the word games they play that are the issue. KC is as much a theist as the others yet he does not play games he answers questions to the best that he can and admits when he doesn't have an answer. As much as I disagree with KC I consider him not an adversary not some boogeyman troll but just a guy doing the best he can and taking a lot of flak for doing so. To quote God's big book of bad idea's "You shall know a mans works by the the fruit they produce"

I've seen much ridicule of people who come here to try and convince us of God's existence. Not for intellectual dishonesty or anything like that, but for being "preachers". There was a time when I was very critical of people preaching too but I've re-evaluated my position.

Full Circle Wrote:I may understand your reasoning if it was only regarding family, however I'm not convinced that the concerns of theists coming onto this board are legitimate. Any opposition to their beliefs threaten their world-view and bring it into question and they also believe that they've been instructed by their god to save souls on his behalf. They're not worried about you, they're worried about themselves.

I don't believe anyone comes here feeling their beliefs to be threatened. If a theist feels atheism is a threat to their beliefs then surely they would try and avoid it, not actively sign up to an atheist forum.

Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:I think some are caring...I think there are a lot who are sanctimonious asshats.

I try not to lump all into the latter category. KC I think belongs in the former category. I think he truly cares..

I don't think KC is here to try and save us from Hell, he doesn't believe anyone can by saved from Hell by this point, he believes it's pre-determined anyway. Nor do I think he's here to be a dick.

He's a third type of theist. He's here because he enjoys civil debates and things Christians and Atheists should be able to be civil with each other despite our differences.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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12-04-2013, 09:09 PM
RE: I've been thinking .......
I'm not interesting in saving you Hughsie. I'm interested in challenging your world view as well as having my world view challenged.
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12-04-2013, 09:11 PM
RE: I've been thinking .......
(12-04-2013 09:08 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
Full Circle Wrote:I may understand your reasoning if it was only regarding family, however I'm not convinced that the concerns of theists coming onto this board are legitimate. Any opposition to their beliefs threaten their world-view and bring it into question and they also believe that they've been instructed by their god to save souls on his behalf. They're not worried about you, they're worried about themselves.

I don't believe anyone comes here feeling their beliefs to be threatened. If a theist feels atheism is a threat to their beliefs then surely they would try and avoid it, not actively sign up to an atheist forum.

On the contrary, I think they come here fishing for souls and to vanquish the opposition.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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12-04-2013, 09:11 PM
RE: I've been thinking .......
(12-04-2013 09:09 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'm not interesting in saving you Hughsie. I'm interested in challenging your world view as well as having my world view challenged.

Well this thread was about people who come here claiming they want to 'save' us but I wouldn't condemn someone for challenging my world view either.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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12-04-2013, 09:25 PM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2013 10:29 PM by DLJ.)
RE: I've been thinking .......
(12-04-2013 08:50 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  ...
In such a scenario I would do everything in my power to prevent that person coming to harm
...

Do you think it his heroic and honourable to sacrifice your life to prevent others from coming to harm... real harm... not just taking away fictitious sins?

I recall the thread from yesterday, about the army chaplain who did that. Or James T Kirk's dad etc. etc.

If so, it would be better to get your camera out and record the conversation and the squishy aftermath.

Then... YouTube.


Where's your utilitarian spunk?!?!

Dodgy

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12-04-2013, 09:56 PM
RE: I've been thinking .......
(12-04-2013 09:08 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(12-04-2013 09:00 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Their reasons for coming here, if as selfless as you are claiming, is not the issue. Egor, Pleasejesus, Heywood all make exaggerated claims and then backtrack on them for 50 pages over a dozen threads. Its the intellectual dishonesty and the word games they play that are the issue. KC is as much a theist as the others yet he does not play games he answers questions to the best that he can and admits when he doesn't have an answer. As much as I disagree with KC I consider him not an adversary not some boogeyman troll but just a guy doing the best he can and taking a lot of flak for doing so. To quote God's big book of bad idea's "You shall know a mans works by the the fruit they produce"

I've seen much ridicule of people who come here to try and convince us of God's existence. Not for intellectual dishonesty or anything like that, but for being "preachers". There was a time when I was very critical of people preaching too but I've re-evaluated my position.

Full Circle Wrote:I may understand your reasoning if it was only regarding family, however I'm not convinced that the concerns of theists coming onto this board are legitimate. Any opposition to their beliefs threaten their world-view and bring it into question and they also believe that they've been instructed by their god to save souls on his behalf. They're not worried about you, they're worried about themselves.

I don't believe anyone comes here feeling their beliefs to be threatened. If a theist feels atheism is a threat to their beliefs then surely they would try and avoid it, not actively sign up to an atheist forum.

Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:I think some are caring...I think there are a lot who are sanctimonious asshats.

I try not to lump all into the latter category. KC I think belongs in the former category. I think he truly cares..

I don't think KC is here to try and save us from Hell, he doesn't believe anyone can by saved from Hell by this point, he believes it's pre-determined anyway. Nor do I think he's here to be a dick.

He's a third type of theist. He's here because he enjoys civil debates and things Christians and Atheists should be able to be civil with each other despite our differences.

You're right. I forgot about that. Dunno..KC's a nice, good person tho...there's probably been a couple that have come here out of genuine concern....but I really think far too many come here just to be dicks.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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