I've noticed something peculiar.
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19-05-2015, 01:42 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
I think people do it because all theists can say is "god exists" without actually showing any real proof of a god.

There is no "debate" as up to now I have never come across a decent answer that proves gods existence and it must be infuriating for the people whos lives get judged and affected every single day because they live in a community where the vast majority believe in fairytales they can not provide evidence for.

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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19-05-2015, 01:44 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
I understand what you're saying, I don't know if it's an "I have to win" attitude so much as an "I can't sift through this bullshit, help me" request.
Look at some of the arguments that help is being requested for. Most of the time, the theist arguments tend to be loaded with multiple, rapid-fire points to flat-out assertion of lies.
It happens all too often that our points are ignored, only to be replied to by more assertions. We see it all the time here, what should be a simple discussion turns into a convoluted mess, almost always steered there by the theist.
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19-05-2015, 01:55 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
I have never had a theist I have ever talked to not say "I'll have to ask my pastor" or something like that. Just my experience. Never discussed with you but you don't strike me as that type.

I agree that some who post questions here in the manner you are talking about are looking for a quick answer to copy and paste elsewhere and are too lazy to do their own reading/thinking. There are lazy people in all walks of life who don't want to put the effort into learning something, they just want an answer. I am sure that most on here would agree that nonbelief doesn't make you smarter.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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19-05-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
(19-05-2015 12:50 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I've been active in the online atheist community for going on 4 years now. All communities have their idiosyncrasies, but there seems to be a prevalent one within the atheist circles of the Internet.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I don't have nearly the logged hours within the theist community as I do the atheist community, so my observations could be skewed. Likewise, I've also gained the reputation of being neutral and being able to fairly observe things how they are without prejudice.

That being said...

The peculiarity that I've noticed among online atheists is a very well established "Run to Mommy and Daddy" syndrome. There is an overwhelming abundance of "help me prove this theist wrong", "need help with a debate", or "how do I prove this wrong"; or even "come prove this theist wrong".

I don't know. It's just strange. It's just overwhelmingly like... OMG KILLKILLKILL. Sometimes like a hive mind for the latter. For the former, it's like you're too weak, but you ABSOLUTELY have to be right (because you know, you're right. Always.), so you call on your bigger buddies to beat up the guy you couldn't.

Now, I'm well aware this isn't exclusive to atheism... I know all groups do this... I know theists do this.

To me, it just seems way more prevalent in atheists.

It's weird, you know. Being on the other side looking in. Because, I see atheists accuse theists of "not wanting to face facts because it would cause the theist to risk losing their faith."

Yet... I see atheists... determined to win every little iota of an argument. Afraid to lose. Having to call in buddies to back them up. Because. Win.

To me... being the neutral bastard I am... I see that as nothing different than what a theist is being accused of. Why are you so afraid to lose? The way it looks is that you're afraid to lose because if your belief system is shaken in any way, then it will come crumbling down.

I know that isn't true for the majority of atheists... but it just comes across that way.

I mean... seriously... just take a look at this forum. Look at the A&T sections. Look at how many threads are requesting help with dismantling a theist....

or

something else.

Something I find a little strange too. Look at how many threads there are about "owning" theists. Why do you feel the need to be validated for how "atheist" you are?

Again... full disclose, I'm sure theists have threads like this too.

I'm just observing.

There seems to be a constant need to be circle jerked or validated for a destruction of theist. Do you really care about the principle or that person's path to enlightenment... or is it about ego?

Like I said, all communities have their pros and cons, and most of you know that I fit in better with you heathen lot because... just because.

Hope I don't offend with this... again... just my observations.

[also, my pronoun "you" is meant as a generality]

Sorry man, but...
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19-05-2015, 02:02 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
(19-05-2015 12:50 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Now, I'm well aware this isn't exclusive to atheism... I know all groups do this... I know theists do this.

To me, it just seems way more prevalent in atheists.

Yeah, I have no idea how prevalent it is in other circles. I've seen people do it at an RPG forum I post at, although a lot of them are atheist. I've seen theists do it, but like you, I haven't logged as much time there.


(19-05-2015 12:50 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  It's weird, you know. Being on the other side looking in. Because, I see atheists accuse theists of "not wanting to face facts because it would cause the theist to risk losing their faith."

Yet... I see atheists... determined to win every little iota of an argument. Afraid to lose. Having to call in buddies to back them up. Because. Win.

It could be simple winning. As ClydeLee mentioned, it could be validation.

For me, I've wanted to make sense of things. It's why I ultimately walked away from my faith when I felt I couldn't get it to make sense anymore. So, if someone came up with an argument that I thought actually proved God was real, I'd definitely want a fresh pair of eyes on it to see what I might have missed.

I've spent just enough time on theist groups to learn that there's no point in "being right" or "winning" in those arguments. The best I can hope for is clarification. I consider it a win when someone says that they can see where I'm coming from, even if they make a different set of assumptions than I do.
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19-05-2015, 02:48 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
Hah. I also am competitive by nature. If some prat says something idiotic and I end up in an argument I frequently end up going for the throat. I have to remind myself that I don't really need to care what some idiot says - but that state of Zen frequently eludes me. I blow a fuse *really* easily sometimes... Angel

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-05-2015, 03:00 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
In real life, atheists mostly go it alone. It's a very lonely place to be for many of us. It just feels good to have a "family" to come to for help with things that our real life friends cannot or will not help us with.

I am glad so many people feel free to ask for support here. It's part of the whole point of this place.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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19-05-2015, 03:06 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
(19-05-2015 03:00 PM)Dom Wrote:  In real life, atheists mostly go it alone.

I see what you did there.

Angel

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19-05-2015, 03:23 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
I've never seen you as neutral, Kingsy.

That being said, you might see this "anomaly" more prevalent in atheist forums because as you pointed out, you frequent more atheist forums than theist ones.

I've not been to other forums for years so I have nothing to reference in contrast. However, many here are "new" to critical thought processes and debate because they are former theists. The reason many are here is to learn and to exercise brain muscle they were never allowed to use.

Like I say, I have no frame of reference in how theists behave on their forums. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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19-05-2015, 03:29 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
(19-05-2015 12:50 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I've been active in the online atheist community for going on 4 years now. All communities have their idiosyncrasies, but there seems to be a prevalent one within the atheist circles of the Internet.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I don't have nearly the logged hours within the theist community as I do the atheist community, so my observations could be skewed. Likewise, I've also gained the reputation of being neutral and being able to fairly observe things how they are without prejudice.

That being said...

The peculiarity that I've noticed among online atheists is a very well established "Run to Mommy and Daddy" syndrome. There is an overwhelming abundance of "help me prove this theist wrong", "need help with a debate", or "how do I prove this wrong"; or even "come prove this theist wrong".

I don't know. It's just strange. It's just overwhelmingly like... OMG KILLKILLKILL. Sometimes like a hive mind for the latter. For the former, it's like you're too weak, but you ABSOLUTELY have to be right (because you know, you're right. Always.), so you call on your bigger buddies to beat up the guy you couldn't.

Now, I'm well aware this isn't exclusive to atheism... I know all groups do this... I know theists do this.

To me, it just seems way more prevalent in atheists.

It's weird, you know. Being on the other side looking in. Because, I see atheists accuse theists of "not wanting to face facts because it would cause the theist to risk losing their faith."

Yet... I see atheists... determined to win every little iota of an argument. Afraid to lose. Having to call in buddies to back them up. Because. Win.

To me... being the neutral bastard I am... I see that as nothing different than what a theist is being accused of. Why are you so afraid to lose? The way it looks is that you're afraid to lose because if your belief system is shaken in any way, then it will come crumbling down.

I know that isn't true for the majority of atheists... but it just comes across that way.

I mean... seriously... just take a look at this forum. Look at the A&T sections. Look at how many threads are requesting help with dismantling a theist....

or

something else.

Something I find a little strange too. Look at how many threads there are about "owning" theists. Why do you feel the need to be validated for how "atheist" you are?

Again... full disclose, I'm sure theists have threads like this too.

I'm just observing.

There seems to be a constant need to be circle jerked or validated for a destruction of theist. Do you really care about the principle or that person's path to enlightenment... or is it about ego?

Like I said, all communities have their pros and cons, and most of you know that I fit in better with you heathen lot because... just because.

Hope I don't offend with this... again... just my observations.

[also, my pronoun "you" is meant as a generality]

I don't quite fit the generalized profile you have.

It might be that since public questioning of religion was unheard of for like, ever, there might be a subtle bias on your part, being so culturally entitled for all those centuries and all around the world.

For some, it's easier to just close their eyes and believe, than it is to face things head on, question everything, (including religious concepts), ask questions about the natural world.

Don't be afraid of questions and questioning things. They are a good thing! Thumbsup
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