I've noticed something peculiar.
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19-05-2015, 03:48 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
There are also a lot of people like me who grew up without religion, never got the chance to experience or learn it so we have to take in more a lot quicker and probably are not as experienced or ready to debate. We want to learn so we can do better in debates and help get people thinking and we can't do that if we don't get help to better understand what is being thrown at us. I also don't look at debates as a win or lose based on who debated better than the other, even if a theist out debated someone, if that debate got the theist asking questions and really giving things about their religion and the world around them serious thought then I would consider that a win for us.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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19-05-2015, 04:25 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
Fact of the matter is K.C is not simply your garden variety Christian but a self assessed saved Calvinist who knows he is going to that special place.
Calvinism of course teaches that god pre elected who will be saved; KC has received a 'big hint'.
While I have no objections to Christians engaging atheist forums if they wish to do so I find it objectionable to claim that atheists/ agnostics turn to others for support.
After all the church has done this wholesale for thousands of years, not so much regarding support but bald instruction.
We all turn to various forms of support, whether citing experts in the field, lectures we have attended, books we have read, along with other people.Surely this is how we function as a sane society.
Is this not the way a forum should operate?
The fact that little consensus is ever achieved indicates to me that the Christian teachings do not appeal to our rationality and experience as human beings.
If Christians want to push the faith, hope, perfect/power ethic here than they must expect criticism from those attending and sharing an atheist forum.
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19-05-2015, 04:40 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
(19-05-2015 12:50 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yet... I see atheists... determined to win every little iota of an argument. Afraid to lose. Having to call in buddies to back them up. Because. Win.

You mean like having the backing of the theist's congregation or particular faith practice?

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19-05-2015, 05:01 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
I dunno. I don't see the exchanging of ideas as a win-or-lose dynamic. There are beliefs that are closer to objective reality than others; that is all.
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19-05-2015, 05:02 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
KC this is stupid.
Arguments such as the existence of God are not based on who knows what they are based on proof.
Just because one particular atheist doesn't know how to refute something doesn't mean it can't be refuted. Someone shouldn't "lose" an argument simply because they didn't know. An argument should be lost based on what is fact and what isn't.

Maybe you see it as more prevalent in Atheist's because we're more open to admit we don't know something which can't really be said for theist's.

I welcome a whole group of theists to come on here and prove theism right but it will never happen because that's an impossible task because theism is factually and fundamentally wrong.

This is an atheist forum, there are more of us compared to them. If a lone theist comes here it's his own damn fault that he's arguing against a whole bunch of atheists.

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19-05-2015, 05:04 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
(19-05-2015 05:01 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  I dunno. I don't see the exchanging of ideas as a win-or-lose dynamic. There are beliefs that are closer to objective reality than others; that is all.

A reasonable post. Perhaps there is hope for more. Thumbsup

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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19-05-2015, 05:10 PM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2015 05:14 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
(19-05-2015 12:50 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  The peculiarity that I've noticed among online atheists is a very well established "Run to Mommy and Daddy" syndrome. There is an overwhelming abundance of "help me prove this theist wrong", "need help with a debate", or "how do I prove this wrong"; or even "come prove this theist wrong".

An overwhelming abundance you say. Just a casual perusal of the last 100 or so threads started in A&T show a few here and there but certainly not an "overwhelming abundance". Maybe you could do a count for me to substantiate this seemingly outrageous claim. More likely you are just more sensitive to these types of threads for one reason or another. But that's your problem, not the forum's.

#sigh
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19-05-2015, 05:14 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
You know, in thinking about this I realized that there have been a couple times when I have asked for someone to respond to a theist's post. It's because I am not a scholar like gwg or Bucky or Mark...or others.

I know that certain posts are BS but don't have the vast, detailed knowledge that others have. It's not about win...it's about asking for someone with more skill to step in.

I don't have an issue admitting that theological debate isn't my thing.

What bug's up your butt KC?

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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19-05-2015, 05:21 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
Also, I will admit that when faced with an argument from a theist, I don't always have the knowledge to counter it. I don't even know if that knowledge exists; for all I know I am being faced with a valid and sound argument from a theist; the irrefutable. However, despite that, I still believe I am right. My conclusion is already drawn; I'm right and they're wrong - there is no god, and no proof suggesting there is one. Instead of looking at their argument and thinking, "that makes sense" I instead think, "This is wrong, but I don't know how it is" and then perhaps, "let's go find someone who does." I wonder if this is what you want some of us to admit to. I have no problem admitting it.
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19-05-2015, 05:24 PM
RE: I've noticed something peculiar.
(19-05-2015 05:21 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Also, I will admit that when faced with an argument from a theist, I don't always have the knowledge to counter it. I don't even know if that knowledge exists; for all I know I am being faced with a valid and sound argument from a theist; the irrefutable. However, despite that, I still believe I am right. My conclusion is already drawn; I'm right and they're wrong ...

You might want to work on that. It won't serve you well.

#sigh
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