I want your thoughts and opinions on this video:
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
20-09-2013, 06:54 PM
RE: I want your thoughts and opinions on this video:
(20-09-2013 03:32 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 02:25 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I in no way said that. I'd appreciate some honesty. Thanks.

Your exact words are here:

Quote:State government is no less arbitrary and corruptible than federal government. The lines on a political map don't change their nature just because they're thicker or thinner


Quote:I did NOT put any words in your mouth.


I'm glad you pulled out the exact quote you based your claim on about cjlr's words because this demonstrates precisely that you DID put words in his mouth. His statement only was that State and local governments are subject to corruption like any other level of government. How you went from this statement to "he wants one set of laws (his set) that is forced on the whole nation, with no room for dissent." is beyond me or any reasonable person.

For the moment, since you brought out the actual cjlr words and somehow still think you were fair about your characterization, I am willing to consider the possibility that you do not intend to misquote him even though you clearly do. Assuming as I do that you are not dishonest, this tells me two things about you:
--you are so biased and entrenched in your point of view and ideology that when you read something inconsistent with your world view, you imagine what they are saying is equivalent to your per-conceived opinion about your political opponents.
--you are beyond the capability of reasoned debate. You may understand the words as actually written by cjlr, but you know what he 'actually meant' and instead attack his 'true position' because it is easier to attack this newly constructed straw man. If you truly do this unintentionally, it tells me you convinced yourself by use of a straw man fallacy that your position is true, and you easily delude yourself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like BryanS's post
20-09-2013, 07:52 PM
RE: I want your thoughts and opinions on this video:
(20-09-2013 03:32 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Your exact words are here:

Quote:State government is no less arbitrary and corruptible than federal government. The lines on a political map don't change their nature just because they're thicker or thinner

Yes. Those are my exact words.

(20-09-2013 03:32 PM)frankksj Wrote:  The whole debate is that I feel laws should be passed at the state level (the thin lines on the map that everyone can cross), NOT the national level (the thick lines which everyone must stay in). I had pointed out because both sides of the debate insist the whole country must be run the way they want in a 'winner takes all' and everyone else must comply. Neither side is content to keep their laws at the local level so that you can have multiple systems side-by-side, tolerating each other in peace. Your response above is crystal clear: there is "no advantage to restricting the laws to the local/state level".


So, in other words, in the Israel/Palestine feud, you see no advantage to having both sides agree to peacefully co-exist, with "Jewish" laws, like rules around Sabbath, limited to Jewish communities, and "Arab" laws, like mandatory loudspeaker prayer announcements at 4am, limited to Arab communities. You see no advantage to the Jews saying "I will live in a community where we live our life one way, and you can live in a community where you live your life you way." You were clear: there is no advantage to that. It's just as good to have ONE set of laws for the whole country. And this is the result: two sides locked into a never-ending feud while they spend all their resources battling each other to get their laws passed nationwide.

I did NOT put any words in your mouth.

Wait.

Hold the phone, your honour. Are you for real?

(20-09-2013 03:32 PM)frankksj Wrote:  I did NOT put any words in your mouth.

Uh...

(20-09-2013 03:32 PM)frankksj Wrote:  So, in other words...

[Image: KvNcmKvugcxl9Y9PYeiGi1zRIXmUrAsevRKXyOQa...-h400-e365]

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes cjlr's post
20-09-2013, 08:11 PM
RE: I want your thoughts and opinions on this video:
Are you guys still pretending that the government under capitalism and the capitalist class are two separately functioning entities?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-09-2013, 08:14 PM
RE: I want your thoughts and opinions on this video:
(20-09-2013 08:11 PM)I and I Wrote:  Are you guys still pretending that the government under capitalism and the capitalist class are two separately functioning entities?

Do you have an actual point to make? Just regurgitating what the voices in your head are saying to you does not make a persuasive argument.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes BryanS's post
20-09-2013, 08:55 PM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2013 09:56 PM by DLJ.)
RE: I want your thoughts and opinions on this video:
With the 'Switzerland' example, a few things were in place that do not (yet) appear in the OP example:
1) A desire to change
2) Leadership / guiding coalition
3) A shared vision of a future state.

The process for change is well established but for it to happen (as it did in Switzerland and Northern Ireland etc.) there needs to be:
a) A build up of pain
b) A tipping point or 'trigger' event.

Here's a picture that summarises what to do after that:

[Image: howwherewhatwhen5.png]

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-09-2013, 10:15 AM
RE: I want your thoughts and opinions on this video:
PoolBoyG, I again offer my apologies. Arrogant shits ignoring what is a significant problem in Israel so they can debate/argue their own special issues. How enlightening.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2013, 07:21 AM
RE: I want your thoughts and opinions on this video:
(22-09-2013 10:15 AM)JAH Wrote:  PoolBoyG, I again offer my apologies. Arrogant shits ignoring what is a significant problem in Israel so they can debate/argue their own special issues. How enlightening.

From what deep well of arrogance do you dredge the need or justification for apologizing for others? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2013, 09:37 AM
RE: I want your thoughts and opinions on this video:
(23-09-2013 07:21 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-09-2013 10:15 AM)JAH Wrote:  PoolBoyG, I again offer my apologies. Arrogant shits ignoring what is a significant problem in Israel so they can debate/argue their own special issues. How enlightening.

From what deep well of arrogance do you dredge the need or justification for apologizing for others? Consider

How dare some of us respond to staggeringly dishonest mischaracterisations of our opinions.

Where do we find the nerve.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2013, 10:08 AM (This post was last modified: 23-09-2013 10:13 AM by ridethespiral.)
RE: I want your thoughts and opinions on this video:
Skipping the drama addressing the OP...

Its a shame that more Americans can't see past the official stance of Israelis infallibility as a preferred weapons buyer and regional tool.

The existence of the apartheid state is unmistakable at this point, the humanitarian atrocities are uncountable. Nothing good can come of a fundamentalist religious state, Palestine did exist, those people have a right to life and liberty. Israel is the infant state preying on it's neighbors to feed it's expansion.

The sense of entitlement in that video makes me want to vomit, bus tours of possessed homes? These people are paying for a chance to guffaw at the suffering of others? Segregation, checkpoints, brutal beatings... Dirty AIPIAC money clouds our vision, yeah it's easy to accept the official redirect and live in blissful igorance but it ain't right.

...and stateside I abhor those who would (and do) play the holocaust card/anti-semite card as if the atrocities of the past somehow justify the atrocities of today. If you gave a shit about about all that high minded, stuff you are preaching you would accept the truth. It is disgraceful to hide behind the suffering of your grandparents while supporting apartheid.

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes ridethespiral's post
23-09-2013, 10:18 AM
RE: I want your thoughts and opinions on this video:
Nothing new here, religion fucking up peoples lives as usual.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: