"I was a christian", theist argument.
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11-10-2015, 11:42 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 11:38 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 11:35 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Only a moron would think hearsay is evidence.

I hear that Obama is a Kenyan-born Muslim. That must be evidence he really is!!!!


It's evidence that you think he is right?

It's evidence that some people in this period of history thought Obama is a Kenyan-Born Muslim.

Holy fuck you're stupid.

It's evidence that it (the opinion) exists because it has been said by someone and maybe someone believes it is fact? Do you even realize how dumb that sounds?

The fact that some people think the opinion (what they think is evidence) of Jesus being a real person who is profiled in the NT in no way lends any credibility to the validity of that OPINION.

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11-10-2015, 11:47 AM (This post was last modified: 11-10-2015 11:52 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 11:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  I am going to point out the accepted scientific requirements for evidence which you repeatedly ignore.

I don't give a flying fuck what your personal definition is.

For which area of science? Biology, Physics, Psychology? Sociology? History? Is there a single governing authority that determined what the meaning is for all these various endeavors?

Let's ask a question. Let's say their was a scientific endeavor to explain how religion arose what purpose it served for early communities. Would researchers be able to use religious scriptures as evidence in support of their particular explanations?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-10-2015, 11:48 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 11:38 AM)Aoi Magi Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 11:31 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, if I wanna use it in support of any particular view, or claim, it's evidence. Whether you like it or not. Evidence acquires it's meaning from it's utility.

Writing of Jewish and Roman historians are evidence for events and persons existing at the period, even when they are not acquired by first hand knowledge by these writers. That doesn't change when dealing with Christian writers either.

If we were trying to create a picture of how Christianity arose, the beliefs of early Christians etc...the NT writings would all be used as evidence in support of the events that transpired in that period. Only a moron would think otherwise.
I see, so your definition for evidence is "whatever happens to support the conclusion"? or do you have any stricter rules for what can be considered evidence in any given case as per you?

I am just curious Angel

It's shifting the goal posts. It's evidence of "something." It's either evidence that the opinion is real (which would mean it needs to be actual evidence), or it is "evidence" that people have that opinion (which makes it a fact that people have that opinion that has no evidence for its validity).

Typical theist "logic" in an attempt to add the word "evidence" to their illogical and baseless beliefs. Laugh out load

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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11-10-2015, 11:50 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 11:47 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 11:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  I am going to point out the accepted scientific requirements for evidence which you repeatedly ignore.

I don't give a flying fuck what your personal definition is.

For which area of science? Biology, Physics, Psychology? Sociology? History? Is there a single governing authority that determined what the meaning is for all these various endeavors?

When you use a term in a way that no one else does (by equating evidence with opinion), you've demonstrated your arrogant ignorance.

There isn't required a "governing body" to decide on what "evidence" is or isn't. We all have dictionaries and common sense and the ability to use terms appropriately so as not to conflate terms or intentionally mislead. Well, most of us I guess posses an honest demeanor and a dictionary Drinking Beverage You seem to be lacking... Consider

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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11-10-2015, 11:50 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 11:47 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 11:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  I am going to point out the accepted scientific requirements for evidence which you repeatedly ignore.

I don't give a flying fuck what your personal definition is.

For which area of science? Biology, Physics, Psychology? Sociology? History? Is there a single governing authority that determined what the meaning is for all these various endeavors?

Why is it you theists always need a governing body, an absolute authority? Consider

The standards for evidence are a consensus.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-10-2015, 11:52 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 11:50 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 11:47 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  For which area of science? Biology, Physics, Psychology? Sociology? History? Is there a single governing authority that determined what the meaning is for all these various endeavors?

Why is it you theists always need a governing body, an absolute authority? Consider

The standards for evidence are a consensus.

They can't "know" anything unless someone tells them it is "true" and direct from "god."

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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11-10-2015, 12:00 PM (This post was last modified: 11-10-2015 12:03 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 11:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Holy fuck you're stupid.

It's evidence that it (the opinion) exists because it has been said by someone and maybe someone believes it is fact? Do you even realize how dumb that sounds?


It's a fact people in our period of time believed Obama was a Kenyan Born Muslim.
It's a fact that there was a conspiracy type belief among certain anti-Obama republicans that Obama was not an american, and muslim, trying to infiltrate our government.

The question is not whether some external data is a fact, or evidence, it's question of what conclusions can be drawn by it.

Here's a question, are the NT writings evidence that the writers and communities surrounding them believed Jesus was an actual historical person?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-10-2015, 12:05 PM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 12:00 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 11:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Holy fuck you're stupid.

It's evidence that it (the opinion) exists because it has been said by someone and maybe someone believes it is fact? Do you even realize how dumb that sounds?


It's a fact people in our period of time believed Obama was a Kenyan Born Muslim.
It's a fact that there was a conspiracy type belief among certain anti-Obama republicans that Obama was not an american, and muslim, trying to infiltrate our government.

The question is not whether some external data is a fact, or evidence, it's question of what conclusions can be drawn by it.

Here's a question, are the NT writings evidence that the writers and communities surrounding them believed Jesus was an actual historical person?

Shifting the goal posts again (evidence of an opinion vs evidence for an opinion) and a straw man. No one has claimed that there aren't people stupid enough to believe in a literal Jesus. But people believing it, isn't evidence it's a true opinion.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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11-10-2015, 12:07 PM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
Kids really believe there is evidence for Santa. Christians really believe there is evidence for Jesus/God.

I believe they believe, but both are wrong with respect to their opinion, and their use of the term "evidence" in an attempt to add validity to their opinion/belief.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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11-10-2015, 12:07 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 11:50 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 11:47 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  For which area of science? Biology, Physics, Psychology? Sociology? History? Is there a single governing authority that determined what the meaning is for all these various endeavors?

Why is it you theists always need a governing body, an absolute authority? Consider

The standards for evidence are a consensus.

Consensus among who?

Is there a consensus view among these distinct branches? Does the Historian and the Biologist work together to form a consensus view on what evidence is? Or do they likely have distinct meanings associated with their particular professional endeavors?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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