"I was a christian", theist argument.
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11-10-2015, 01:43 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 01:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  James is assumed to be Jesus' brother. We only have Paul's word on that.

And this is still not evidence of the historicity of Jesus as it is uncorroborated. Josephus' writings are hearsay on this subject.

No, it's a first hand account of someone meeting his brother, and his disciples, which is not particularly characteristic of a non-historical figure. But I get it, Paul was a part of that early Christian conspiracy to pass off a supposedly non-existent Jewish messiah, as a real one. I mean why else would he lie about meeting his brother James?

Perhaps there was an early Christian sect that believed in a non-existent Jewish messiah, named Jesus, and a later sect were of the opinion that this is not enough, we need to devise a way to pass him off as historical. Paul was a part of this sect, that's why he wrote of meeting Jesus's brother, the Gospels writers were also in on the conspiracy, that why they placed Jesus in a historical time and place, dying at the hands of Roman authorities of the time, etc...

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-10-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 01:34 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 01:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  Source criticism is not really a thing in science. It is not evidence, it is opinion

Ah yes, according to Chas since it's not a thing in sciences, like biology, and physics, it's an opinion. You're just making this shit up as you go along, and it's rather transparent.

What is it I am making up? Consider Put up or shut up.

Quote:
Quote:Do you know what source criticism is? It is "the analysis and study of the sources used by biblical authors".

"Source criticism (or information evaluation) is the process of evaluating an information source, i.e. a document, a person, a speech, a fingerprint, a photo, an observation or anything used in order to obtain knowledge. In relation to a given purpose, a given information source may be more or less valid, reliable or relevant. Broadly, "source criticism" is the interdisciplinary study of how information sources are evaluated for given tasks (cf. next sections)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_cri...ce_studies

And that is not how science is done.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-10-2015, 01:50 PM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 01:43 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 01:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  James is assumed to be Jesus' brother. We only have Paul's word on that.

And this is still not evidence of the historicity of Jesus as it is uncorroborated. Josephus' writings are hearsay on this subject.

No, it's a first hand account of someone meeting his brother, and his disciples, which is not particularly characteristic of a non-historical figure. But I get it, Paul was a part of that early Christian conspiracy to pass off a supposedly non-existent Jewish messiah, as a real one. I mean why else would he lie about meeting his brother James?

Perhaps there was an early Christian sect that believed in a non-existent Jewish messiah, named Jesus, and a later sect were of the opinion that this is not enough, we need to devise a way to pass him off as historical. Paul was a part of this sect, that's why he wrote of meeting Jesus's brother, the Gospels writers were also in on the conspiracy, that why they placed Jesus in a historical time and place, dying at the hands of Roman authorities of the time, etc...

I once met Bigfoot...

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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11-10-2015, 01:52 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 01:43 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 01:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  James is assumed to be Jesus' brother. We only have Paul's word on that.

And this is still not evidence of the historicity of Jesus as it is uncorroborated. Josephus' writings are hearsay on this subject.

No, it's a first hand account of someone meeting his brother, and his disciples, which is not particularly characteristic of a non-historical figure. But I get it, Paul was a part of that early Christian conspiracy to pass off a supposedly non-existent Jewish messiah, as a real one. I mean why else would he lie about meeting his brother James?

Perhaps there was an early Christian sect that believed in a non-existent Jewish messiah, named Jesus, and a later sect were of the opinion that this is not enough, we need to devise a way to pass him off as historical. Paul was a part of this sect, that's why he wrote of meeting Jesus's brother, the Gospels writers were also in on the conspiracy, that why they placed Jesus in a historical time and place, dying at the hands of Roman authorities of the time, etc...

It doesn't require a conspiracy. People make shit up all the time to increase their appearance of importance, or self worth, or because it gives them a warm feeling.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-10-2015, 01:53 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 01:50 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I once met Bigfoot...

What was his shoe size?Tongue

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11-10-2015, 01:54 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 01:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  It doesn't require a conspiracy. People make shit up all the time to increase their appearance of importance, or self worth, or because it gives them a warm feeling.
...Or because it's profitable

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11-10-2015, 01:57 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 01:54 PM)Aoi Magi Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 01:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  It doesn't require a conspiracy. People make shit up all the time to increase their appearance of importance, or self worth, or because it gives them a warm feeling.
...Or because it's profitable

A few shekels here, a few shekels there, it adds up.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-10-2015, 01:57 PM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 01:53 PM)Aoi Magi Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 01:50 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I once met Bigfoot...

What was his shoe size?Tongue

It was so large, even the size is mythical.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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11-10-2015, 02:01 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 01:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  It doesn't require a conspiracy. People make shit up all the time to increase their appearance of importance, or self worth, or because it gives them a warm feeling.

So Paul made up his encounters with his disciples, and his brother James, along with the disputes he had with them?

And Jesus never had a brother named James, because supposedly Jesus didn't exist? Did Paul not only make up encountering his brother, did he also make up his brother? Or was this non-existence James also floating around at the same time, that even Josephus ends up writing about it, regarding his death?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-10-2015, 02:08 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(11-10-2015 01:54 PM)Aoi Magi Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 01:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  It doesn't require a conspiracy. People make shit up all the time to increase their appearance of importance, or self worth, or because it gives them a warm feeling.
...Or because it's profitable

That's a good motive right. The early Christians, made up a Jewish messiah whole cloth, trying to pass him off as historical person, profiting and getting away with it for 2000 years, until some atheists on the internet figured it out, like they figured out the Rothschild banking conspiracy, and creationist figured out that dinosaurs bones are really just reconfigured chicken bones.

This is it was passes for skepticism, and rational thinking huh?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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