"I was a christian", theist argument.
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07-10-2015, 07:56 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
As a former devout Christian, I heard the same thing: I never *truly* let Jesus into my heart and never *truly* had a relationship with god. The idea that someone would willingly turn away from god and Jesus is unfathomable to those who love/believe in god/jesus. Brainwashing and mass delusion will do that to you. When I was a Christian, I *did* let Jesus into my heart and I *did* have a relationship with God. Now I just prefer a relationship with reality.
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07-10-2015, 07:58 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(06-10-2015 11:36 PM)Seeking_Truth Wrote:  Recently I saw this video (you can disable annotations if you wish) where there's a debate between a christian and an atheist. During this debate, the christian said that atheist where never true christians, because they really didn't had a relationship with god. Alse said that if they say they had one but later changed their minds it means that they accept god is real.

I have a problem with this argument, especially because it can also apply for any other religion. A islamist, or krishna former follower never had a relationship with their respective deities, and if they say they did then are asserting the existence of their respectives deities. And of course that doesn't proof anything.

Besides, that's their definition of christianity, you have to accept the bible in order to accept this biblical definition. But as non-believer, the bible isn't valid.

Another point, you can't compare a relationship of marriage which involves a real person to a relationship with your imaginary friend. Just because you think you're close to that entity doesn't make real.

What more can you say against this argument?


If every christian who has ever called another christian not a true christian was removed from the Earth, there would be no Christians. ...which explains the 40,000+ different strains of the christian delusion.

You can't compare something for which we have abundant evidence (love, the actions of a real person) to a faith claim, which by definition is that for which lacks evidence. Nice try on their part though. The idea my wife probably loves me is not a radical hypothesis. The idea that a being created the universe is an extraordinary claim. Equating an extraordinary claim with a mundane one, and then suggesting they both "require faith" is disanalogous.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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07-10-2015, 08:09 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(07-10-2015 07:51 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 07:43 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  It is fallacious. It's really not an argument, it's a defense mechanism. It's a rationaliztion. He couldn't possibly know who was a true Christian. It frightens him down deep that you don't believe. The Christian can't allow himself to doubt, so there must be something wrong with the non-believer.

My response would be: Of course I wasn't a true Christian because Christianity isn't true to begin with. And I can prove it!

I don't think you can respond to those people. The only think I could do is to walk away. Undecided

It is a tactic used to take the focus off of the believer's beliefs and put it onto the character of the non-believer. I despise such tactics and it makes me want to go for the jugular so to speak.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

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07-10-2015, 08:13 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
I live for moments like these, ripping their childish worldview apart gives me great pleasure.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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07-10-2015, 08:43 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(07-10-2015 02:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It makes it easier to devalue another person, and likewise their opinions, by removing them from your in-group and placing them into an out-group. This goes one step further in that it is a denial of the person's former association and subsequent rejection of your current in-group; because it is far simpler and easier to dismiss their opinion outright from a position of ignorance, than to honestly evaluate their reasons for rejecting the in-group with which you are currently emotionally invested in.

Indeed, they can't accept the fact that someone can change his mind. Thus, they say that you never truly were part of the group, just because you realized how stupid their ideology was.

"Skepticism is the first step towards truth" -Denis Diderot
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07-10-2015, 08:51 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(07-10-2015 03:31 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I made it a whole 50 seconds. Loud obnoxious idiot. His argument is stupid. Makes me wanna punch him in the eye socket. Tongue

(07-10-2015 05:09 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  snip

Ugh, that's that fucker Eric Hovind, no thanks.
Thanks for saving me the time, good fellows.
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07-10-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
You know, with the Gwynnite; I try to preach a gospel of love. Some people, though, you need to punch in the head. Or walk away. Like Comfort - not being Comfortable.

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07-10-2015, 08:59 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(07-10-2015 08:43 AM)Seeking_Truth Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 02:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It makes it easier to devalue another person, and likewise their opinions, by removing them from your in-group and placing them into an out-group. This goes one step further in that it is a denial of the person's former association and subsequent rejection of your current in-group; because it is far simpler and easier to dismiss their opinion outright from a position of ignorance, than to honestly evaluate their reasons for rejecting the in-group with which you are currently emotionally invested in.

Indeed, they can't accept the fact that someone can change his mind. Thus, they say that you never truly were part of the group, just because you realized how stupid their ideology was.

My perspective is the vast majority of believers know little to nothing about their faith. They attend church, and the reverend talks about whatever cherry picked scripture he chose to elaborate on that day, and they dutifully turn to that page, read it along with the reverend, then sit back and listen to him babble for 2 hours on what that really means while they nod their heads and interject an amen or two here and there.

If they choose to actually research the bible, or like I did, in an attempt to strengthen my faith by learning more about the bible so I could show those atheists a thing or two....then what happens is the astute and intelligent type folks start to lose their faith when they actually learn facts, biblical historicity, and evidence that solidly refutes the whole fabricated story...then they come to a point where they must rip off the blindfold of faith and accept the empirical evidence laid out for all to see.....or shutdown the learning portion of the brain by refusing to review and contemplate the obvious, because that is just the devil trying to fool you into walking away from the lord. When you do walk away, other believers shake their head and say, "he wasn't a true christian."

The reverse can be true as well. When I hear about some christian who used to be an atheist, I have the perspective he/she must have been one of the "I dont believe in god" type folks, but never spent any time fleshing that out with knowledge. Then something happens to them, and they have a "personal experience" Rolleyes and suddenly they are a celebrity within theological circles when they announce "I WAS an atheist, but then jesus reached out to me".....no, you were just a non believer....you were NOT an educated in theology atheist. I refuse to believe someone can have a decent level of knowledge of the absolute fiction called religion and then dismiss that knowledge and embrace the delusion anyway.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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07-10-2015, 09:29 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
I have a wholly different perspective.
I was raised around love and fellowship, singing and camaraderie sans any knowledge of the bible. I have truly never studied it at any length and yet I am quite secure in my non-belief.
I knew these things and evolved as a humanist. Every time I approached these many religions I did not get far before throwing up a bit at the requisite "love with a hammer" that they all share. Am I lazy? Probably so.
I trust my initial assessment of "that's fucked up right there".
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07-10-2015, 09:32 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(07-10-2015 08:59 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  My perspective is the vast majority of believers know little to nothing about their faith.

I refuse to believe someone can have a decent level of knowledge of the absolute fiction called religion and then dismiss that knowledge and embrace the delusion anyway.

Do you refuse to believe without faith? Tongue

I agree with the first bit; the second bit reads as faith based. I think you just haven't met a delusion that's as tasty as the Gwynnies, like these guys...

Quote:What clients thought

At Interact Entertainment Group, employees noticed that Higher Source staffers were "strict in diet and dress." But they showed "a good sense of humor, and they were exceptionally smart," said Lili Ungar, a spokeswoman for the Beverly Hills company.

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