"I was a christian", theist argument.
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12-10-2015, 01:30 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(12-10-2015 01:23 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 01:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  It comes down to opinion if there is no evidence of any particular hypothesis.
If, however, there is evidence that one could reasonably expect to be there but is not, that counts against that choice.

You still didn't answer the question. Can one opinion be any more reasonable than another opinion, on a matter for which there is "no evidence" as your put it?

Of course. But they're still just opinions.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-10-2015, 01:32 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(12-10-2015 12:03 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 09:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yes I know, for you any person who believes in God is delusional and confused.

Tomasia - Since the word "delusional" is thrown around quite a lot here, could you give your definition or criteria around what is a delusion or delusional view/thought?

I throw around the delusional word, when I encounter someone unable to take in and answer what appears to be fairly a straight forward question, and when that inability is not just a matter of misunderstanding, or able to be resolved by attempting to break that question down. It's like their brain prevents them from computing it, sort of like rubbing up against someone's cognitive dissonance.

A pattern akin to whats commonly observed in certified delusional people, but where in this case it's mostly benign.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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12-10-2015, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2015 01:41 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(12-10-2015 01:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 01:23 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  You still didn't answer the question. Can one opinion be any more reasonable than another opinion, on a matter for which there is "no evidence" as your put it?

Of course. But they're still just opinions.

On what basis is one opinion more reasonable than another, if it's not in consideration of evidence?

Could we say the opinion of Mythicist like Archarya X on the Historicity of Jesus are not as reasonable as the opinions of Bart Ehrman? If so on what basis can we do so, if it's not in consideration of evidence?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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12-10-2015, 03:20 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(12-10-2015 01:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 12:03 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Tomasia - Since the word "delusional" is thrown around quite a lot here, could you give your definition or criteria around what is a delusion or delusional view/thought?

I throw around the delusional word, when I encounter someone unable to take in and answer what appears to be fairly a straight forward question, and when that inability is not just a matter of misunderstanding, or able to be resolved by attempting to break that question down. It's like their brain prevents them from computing it, sort of like rubbing up against someone's cognitive dissonance.

A pattern akin to whats commonly observed in certified delusional people, but where in this case it's mostly benign.

Even your definition of delusional is asinine. You have a definition of delusional that defines disagreement with you (including not being able to answer stupid questions, because not all questions are valid) as being delusional.

It isn't that people can't "compute" answers to your questions, it is that your questions and responses often make no fucking sense.

For example, you redefine evidence, then ask if there is "evidence" for a position and don't accept the responses telling you that the assumption (of the definition of evidence and what constitutes evidence) you've made is incorrect.

You assume that rejecting your answer/opinion, is the equivalent of making a new claim. You shift the burden of proof (your attempt to try and bring Bart Ehrman back up for example).

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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12-10-2015, 03:26 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
Here, let me help you out Tomasia:

Delusional:
1. having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions:

2.Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness

If you believe that it is reasonable to accept the existence of something without evidence in any shape or form, then you are delusional.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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12-10-2015, 03:35 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(12-10-2015 03:26 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Here, let me help you out Tomasia:

Delusional:
1. having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions:

2.Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness

If you believe that it is reasonable to accept the existence of something without evidence in any shape or form, then you are delusional.

Thanks for going the extra mile and clearing that up. I did not think tommy would have answered my simple question with a clear and straight forward answer, since it would shine an unpleasant light on his stance in these discussions.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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12-10-2015, 03:36 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(12-10-2015 03:35 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 03:26 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Here, let me help you out Tomasia:

Delusional:
1. having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions:

2.Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness

If you believe that it is reasonable to accept the existence of something without evidence in any shape or form, then you are delusional.

Thanks for going the extra mile and clearing that up. I did not think tommy would have answered my simple question with a clear and straight forward answer, since it would shine an unpleasant light on his stance in these discussions.

Drinking Beverage What can I say? He's delusional

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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12-10-2015, 05:40 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2015 05:45 PM by Tomasia.)
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(12-10-2015 03:26 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Here, let me help you out Tomasia:

Delusional:
1. having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions:

2.Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness

If you believe that it is reasonable to accept the existence of something without evidence in any shape or form, then you are delusional.

According to you and Chas, there is no evidence for the existence of Jesus. Therefore historians like Bart Ehrman who hold that he did, are delusional.

If someone believes something was true based on hearsay that would also be delusional right?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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12-10-2015, 06:04 PM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(12-10-2015 05:40 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 03:26 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Here, let me help you out Tomasia:

Delusional:
1. having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions:

2.Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness

If you believe that it is reasonable to accept the existence of something without evidence in any shape or form, then you are delusional.

According to you and Chas, there is no evidence for the existence of Jesus. Therefore historians like Bart Ehrman who hold that he did, are delusional.

If someone believes something was true based on hearsay that would also be delusional right?

Straw man.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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12-10-2015, 07:01 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2015 07:04 PM by ClydeLee.)
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(12-10-2015 07:45 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 05:55 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Skepticism needs to be more than 1 denial of a claim. It's an attitude, doctrine, method, disposition, etc. It needs to be somewhat of a pattern, not just a one church group saying I'm skeptical of this 1 instance of those saying Jesus doesn't exist.


If skepticism is supposed to be some universal outlook or attitude, to all views and positions, than no one is a skeptic. Every group, person has some sets of belief their particularly skeptical about, and some they're not so skeptical about. There not skeptical about all the beliefs to the same degree.

I'm far more skeptical about objective thinking, rationalism, introspection, truth, even skepticism, then most folks here are who value these beliefs. If they were of some uniformed disposition, we'd like be on the same page, but we're not.

You go again with, universal outlook. . . Why do you box things into All or Nothing Black/white views Constantly.

Congratulations. You are very good at showing your routine bias. Viewing things in the same dishonest or just really somehow illogically comprehending manner. You assume peoples positions and draw out conclusions you are assuming they are as you can figure them out.

Quote:According to you and Chas, there is no evidence for the existence of Jesus.

Yet he's routinely said things like, "I have made no claim about the historicity of Jesus, merely pointed out that the evidence is not strong."

It's horribly pathetic how dishonest of a communicator you are to just constantly by direct quotes and phrases of constantly stated argument, you ignore. Yet you think you're assumption of what he REALLY means must be right. That's just being an ass or willfully ignorant.

You too frequently either have no comprehensions of the sensibilities of what augments are made are by label because you always ramble on about how you think they SHOULD or how YOU WOULD view yourself if you were an "atheists." You are limited to a scope if you only view things how they can relate to you and how you would react to a mental space. If you actually wanted to understand or comprehend something different from you, not being self-imposing about it would actually make it rather easy. If you want an objective approach, you should want to limit the self relevance as much as possible to the view.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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