"I was a christian", theist argument.
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12-10-2015, 07:19 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
This is a good time to review the three R's.

1. Repetition
2. Redundancy
3. Repetition

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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13-10-2015, 04:49 AM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2015 04:52 AM by Tomasia.)
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(12-10-2015 07:01 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
Quote:According to you and Chas, there is no evidence for the existence of Jesus.

Yet he's routinely said things like, "I have made no claim about the historicity of Jesus, merely pointed out that the evidence is not strong."

No Chas and TBD have both claimed there is no evidence of a historical Jesus, but since you just wanted to use one post of their's to claim otherwise let me quote them for you:

Tbd: "They believe not because of evidence, but because of hearsay and stories. "

Tbd: "itself? In your example (Jesus) you say yes, but in reality there exists no evidence to substantiate that opinion/claim."

Tbd: "Only a moron would think hearsay is evidence. "

Chas: "Evolution: lots of evidence that one would have to ignore.

Existence of Jesus: only hearsay, no actual evidence."

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-10-2015, 05:14 AM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2015 05:20 AM by Chas.)
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(12-10-2015 05:40 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 03:26 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Here, let me help you out Tomasia:

Delusional:
1. having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions:

2.Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness

If you believe that it is reasonable to accept the existence of something without evidence in any shape or form, then you are delusional.

According to you and Chas, there is no evidence for the existence of Jesus. Therefore historians like Bart Ehrman who hold that he did, are delusional.

I said that there is no convincing argument either way, that there is no scientific evidence, and that the historical evidence offered is not at all convincing.
What historians often regard as evidence is often rather weak tea and wouldn't qualify as scientific evidence.

Quote:If someone believes something was true based on hearsay that would also be delusional right?

That's not what delusional means. Facepalm

I can think someone incorrect in their interpretation without thinking them delusional.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-10-2015, 05:25 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 04:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Chas: "Evolution: lots of evidence that one would have to ignore.

Existence of Jesus: only hearsay, no actual evidence."

I stand by those statements.
What Biblical historians accept as evidence is often conjecture and hearsay.
What you consider evidence has already been shown to be incorrect. Several times.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-10-2015, 05:46 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 04:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 07:01 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yet he's routinely said things like, "I have made no claim about the historicity of Jesus, merely pointed out that the evidence is not strong."

No Chas and TBD have both claimed there is no evidence of a historical Jesus, but since you just wanted to use one post of their's to claim otherwise let me quote them for you:

Tbd: "They believe not because of evidence, but because of hearsay and stories. "

Tbd: "itself? In your example (Jesus) you say yes, but in reality there exists no evidence to substantiate that opinion/claim."

Tbd: "Only a moron would think hearsay is evidence. "

Chas: "Evolution: lots of evidence that one would have to ignore.

Existence of Jesus: only hearsay, no actual evidence."

Do you know what it means to make a straw man? Do you even understand the blatant dishonesty in your misrepresentation of what people say? Do you understand the arrogance it takes to presume you know what someone meant that they themselves apparently don't know?

Wait, you're a theist. Arrogance and logical fallacies are kind of your thing.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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13-10-2015, 06:00 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 05:46 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 04:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No Chas and TBD have both claimed there is no evidence of a historical Jesus, but since you just wanted to use one post of their's to claim otherwise let me quote them for you:

Tbd: "They believe not because of evidence, but because of hearsay and stories. "

Tbd: "itself? In your example (Jesus) you say yes, but in reality there exists no evidence to substantiate that opinion/claim."

Tbd: "Only a moron would think hearsay is evidence. "

Chas: "Evolution: lots of evidence that one would have to ignore.

Existence of Jesus: only hearsay, no actual evidence."

Do you know what it means to make a straw man? Do you even understand the blatant dishonesty in your misrepresentation of what people say? Do you understand the arrogance it takes to presume you know what someone meant that they themselves apparently don't know?

Wait, you're a theist. Arrogance and logical fallacies are kind of your thing.

I'm not sure how you can interpret multiple direct quotes from yourself as strawman.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-10-2015, 06:07 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 05:25 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 04:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Chas: "Evolution: lots of evidence that one would have to ignore.

Existence of Jesus: only hearsay, no actual evidence."

I stand by those statements.
What Biblical historians accept as evidence is often conjecture and hearsay.
What you consider evidence has already been shown to be incorrect. Several times.

(13-10-2015 05:25 AM)Chas Wrote:  What historians often regard as evidence is often rather weak tea and wouldn't qualify as scientific evidence.

I'm not too sure what you mean by "weak tea".

But to have you clarify.

Do you hold, that what historians here accept as evidence, is not evidence?

That there is no evidence for a historical Jesus? That it just based on hearsay and conjectures, which are not evidence?

And do you agree with TBD's definition of delusional:

"If you believe that it is reasonable to accept the existence of something without evidence in any shape or form, then you are delusional."

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-10-2015, 06:35 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 06:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 05:46 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Do you know what it means to make a straw man? Do you even understand the blatant dishonesty in your misrepresentation of what people say? Do you understand the arrogance it takes to presume you know what someone meant that they themselves apparently don't know?

Wait, you're a theist. Arrogance and logical fallacies are kind of your thing.

I'm not sure how you can interpret multiple direct quotes from yourself as strawman.

Then you truly are a dumbass if you don't understand how your straw man is inconsistent with said quotes.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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13-10-2015, 06:39 AM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2015 07:01 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 06:35 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 06:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'm not sure how you can interpret multiple direct quotes from yourself as strawman.

Then you truly are a dumbass if you don't understand how your straw man is inconsistent with said quotes.


According to you there is no evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus.

Is that the strawman that's inconsistent with the said quotes?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-10-2015, 07:39 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 06:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 06:35 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Then you truly are a dumbass if you don't understand how your straw man is inconsistent with said quotes.


According to you there is no evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus.

Is that the strawman that's inconsistent with the said quotes?

How many times have you been given an answer to that question that isn't the straw man you've constructed? I'm not going to answer that question, again. Read what I've already told you across multiple threads you dumb bastard.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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